Cap 2

Apr. 4th, 2014 01:51 am
lettered: (Default)
[personal profile] lettered
I can't even deal with this movie. Seriously I can't even. I can nothing. I have no can.

Please tell me all your thoughts. Spoilers in the comments (hopefully!). Please come talk to meeeeeeeeeeeeee.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-04-04 09:07 am (UTC)
astridv: (Default)
From: [personal profile] astridv
Have you read Selenak's review? It's really excellent: http://selenak.dreamwidth.org/973500.html

(no subject)

Date: 2014-04-04 09:21 am (UTC)
synecdochic: torso of a man wearing jeans, hands bound with belt (Default)
From: [personal profile] synecdochic
I posted all my feeeeeeeeels!

I thought it was wonderful, and delightfully subversive, and I loved Natasha in it so much.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-04-04 11:54 am (UTC)
rmc28: Rachel smiling against background of trees, with newly-cut short hair (Default)
From: [personal profile] rmc28
I loved that Natasha was such an equal co-protagonist. I love that she and Steve are clearly fond of each other but not romantically so (and Steve makes clear that he wants her as a friend when she throws out the potential "who do you want me to be?"). When did I last see an M-F pairing who work well together but don't have Romantic Tension? Anyone?

Natasha doesn't know who she is if she isn't playing a role. Steve doesn't know what makes him happy. Not sure which broke my heart more. (Neither as much as Peggy having dementia, and Steve's face as he sits with her.)

I love that the surveillance state is not just an unpleasant outcome of an overly-strong military-industrial complex, but the actual explicit work of evil.

I love the unnamed tech who is the first person to say No after Steve's inspirational speech, and the way their decision triggers Sharon's decision. I love Sam's "did you write that down in advance" line. (No, Steve learned how to deliver rhetoric on USO tours, at least in my headcanon.)

Sam! Sam is the one who seems most settled in himself at the start of the film and at the end he's basically chucking everything in to follow Steve.

Oh, and the bit where they don't even bother showing how they retrieved Sam's wings ("behind three locked doors and a 12-foot fence" or whatever it was) because it's just too routine for Steve and Natasha to get through that kind of
security.

I was faintly disappointed when the kickass Jenny Agutter turned out to be Natasha in disguise, because TWO BADASS LADIES would have been SO AMAZING. I wish Sitwell hadn't been evil.

Marvel is still running the overt theme of "teamwork: it's great!" which goes right back to Iron Man and Tony needing Pepper just to survive. Less overtly, they really don't seem to trust organisations, and there doesn't seem to be any concept of a group somewhere between "handful of heroes" and "vast untrustworthy organisation".

I've seen it twice and I want to see it again, but no idea when I will have time.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-04-04 06:35 pm (UTC)
staranise: A star anise floating in a cup of mint tea (Default)
From: [personal profile] staranise
Peggy has dementia? That is not how it came across to me at all.

I love that the surveillance state is not just an unpleasant outcome of an overly-strong military-industrial complex, but the actual explicit work of evil.

YES. YES YES YES.
Edited Date: 2014-04-04 06:36 pm (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2014-04-04 07:18 pm (UTC)
rmc28: Rachel smiling against background of trees, with newly-cut short hair (Default)
From: [personal profile] rmc28
She has a sensible conversation with him, giving some wise advice. Then she coughs and he brings her water, and she looks at him like she's never seen him (in the 21st century) before and says "Steve! You came back!"

My grandmother had dementia for the last decade or so before she died, and we had a lot of conversational resets like that. She could fake it amazingly if you didn't know her well, if you hadn't had that conversation with her a dozen times already. That's how I read the second part of that scene, and Steve's reaction "couldn't leave my best girl" with a pasted-on smile.

At least for Peggy, she is constantly rediscovering the delightful news that Steve is alive. For most people in her age and condition, if their carers / visitors are not careful, they are constantly rediscovering that people they love are dead. This is less fun.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-04-04 07:47 pm (UTC)
staranise: A star anise floating in a cup of mint tea (Default)
From: [personal profile] staranise
Ah, okay. That's a different read on that scene than mine. (I saw it as "her being stoic and sensible and thoughtful, since Steve has come to her for advice/told her about a problem she has information on, and finally she just has EMOTIONS and they have to come OUT somewhere and her stiff upper lip crumbles, as it does periodically around him, into grief and joy, and they are both wishing he'd come back sooner.")
Edited Date: 2014-04-04 07:48 pm (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2014-04-05 02:48 am (UTC)
staranise: A star anise floating in a cup of mint tea (Default)
From: [personal profile] staranise
And I'll admit, I walked INTO the movie with a heavy emotional investment in Peggy being mentally lucid.

But yes, oh god, you're right; Steve just does not ever let people see how hard on him it is. He's very grin-and-bear it. So when Sam went, "It's the bed, right?" the counsellor in me went, oh come ON, he's probably heard that schtick so many times he'll bounce you off cynically. And then I realized... no, probably not. Fury probably wants to keep him operational and is therefore deliberately engineering Steve's self-perception as America's Hero (because that museum display is great for the public, sure, but I've got this sneaking suspicion that it was constructed for Steve's eyes alone).

So the intimacy and vulnerability of that early-morning run... that Steve sees this guy's power and weakness, that he's strong and tough and vigilant, that he relaxes when Steve announces his presence from behind and then swears to cover it up, is part of why Sam can slip that powerful bit of empathy in. Sam lets himself be totally seen, keeps his defenses down, just stays in that moment, because he can put up with Steve lapping him, and still keep going; he can measure himself against Captain America and not feel diminished; so even by the time they sit down Steve has a sense that this guy is safe enough to let in.

Sam (to carry on the identity discussion below) is the master of changes, the gatekeeper; he can be all of himself at once. His secret identity is a natural part of his civilian one, and vice-versa. And what do we see him doing at his job? Teaching heroes to transition into civilians.

So I see Sam and Steve turning into a beautiful relationship.
Edited (I don't even know where I am anymore. Lost in the land of squee. ) Date: 2014-04-05 02:53 am (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2014-04-06 06:43 pm (UTC)
catpella: Imperial logo and Aurebesh text of guild name (Default)
From: [personal profile] catpella
I commented this below, but I want Sam and Steve living together as friendly roommates (or as a ship! not picky!) because they've both Been There Done That with war, nobody's stepping on anybody's triggers, and there can be breakfast and workouts forever.

surveillance state

Date: 2014-04-13 10:10 am (UTC)
rmc28: Rachel smiling against background of trees, with newly-cut short hair (Default)
From: [personal profile] rmc28
[apologies for long delay to reply, I was unexpectedly without internet for most of a week]

My love for the surveillance state actually being the work of evil was basically a visceral reaction of joyous validation (as someone who has donates to campaigns against surveillance, has campaigned, has helped develop party policy against it), a feeling like "YEAH, we TOLD you that was DANGEROUS". There wasn't much critical analysis going on there :-)

Outside the over-the-top atmosphere of a superhero movie, I can see the ways blaming it all on Hydra is a copout. On the other hand, if you can't tell the difference from the outside between something that is the WORK OF EVIL and something that is the more banal outcome of systems that cater to our more selfish instincts ... maybe it'd be better not to have it anyway. (And also to work on making our systems less awful, but Marvel is even worse on systematic problems as it is on organisations and politics; as I think [personal profile] coffeeandink has said a couple of places, it'd be nice to see political positions other than fascism vs libertarianism.)

I think, a bit like Iron Man 3 challenged lazy views of threats to the world, CA:WS challenges lazy solutions to those threats (surveillance, drones, supersoldiers/perfect soldiers) ... as much as either film can do so while still being the product of vastly rich US corporations, and where the subject matter is SUPERHEROES. (We're all very lucky in Steve's utter goodness, and that whatsisface the bully from CA1 didn't get the serum instead. I prefer systems that don't depend on people being utterly good in order to avoid evil outcomes.)

(no subject)

Date: 2014-04-06 06:41 pm (UTC)
catpella: Imperial logo and Aurebesh text of guild name (Default)
From: [personal profile] catpella
Sam is my favorite now and forever. I want a lot of Stam and Steve buddy interactions, possibly in a "platonic living together" AU where they become roommates and eat breakfast and go work out and kick ass.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-04-04 06:33 pm (UTC)
staranise: A star anise floating in a cup of mint tea (Default)
From: [personal profile] staranise
Here are my feels here!

I feel like Falcon belongs in the vicinity of your "Responsible Science" verse. Srsly.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-04-04 07:33 pm (UTC)
rmc28: Rachel smiling against background of trees, with newly-cut short hair (Default)
From: [personal profile] rmc28
I forgot! Natasha wears a necklace the whole way through the film that has a tiny arrow on it. I only noticed on second time through.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-04-04 07:49 pm (UTC)
staranise: A star anise floating in a cup of mint tea (Default)
From: [personal profile] staranise
It was a lovely little nod.

(no subject)

Date: 2014-04-05 06:04 am (UTC)
staranise: A star anise floating in a cup of mint tea (Default)
From: [personal profile] staranise
Can I pls link to this in a link roundup?

Profile

lettered: (Default)
It's Lion Turtles all the way down

January 2015

S M T W T F S
    123
456789 10
11121314151617
18192021222324
25262728293031

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags