Ah, I answered in Dreamwidth? I'm a bit vague on where I am where people cross-post....
We may have to take this offline eventually just for length -- we both like to write looong. I did mean "If You've a Ready Mind." I didn't care for "Quality of Mercy" at all because the ending belied the rest (you probably read my comments on that. For Maya, the most significant difference between her fanfic (most of it) and her original fic that I could find is that she is a guaranteed stitch in fanfic, with the possible exception of Underwater Light; can't quite remember that one in detail. "Drop Dead Gorgeous" is my absolute favourite work of hers; it combines angst and humour I think seamlessly, which is always nicer than either separately to me.
Yes, it's finished -- I think even the epilogue. v. long, and it doesn't let one down -- which I considered a MAJOR possibility, because I saw no way it could end happily, or even... contentedly? Well worth it. As to Victorian, I totally agree -- I'd also like to see Draco as Sherlock and HP as Watson, only magical. Stray did a great story based on that, but more modern.... and with the casting reversed. Well, it's more CSI with magic, I guess. Loved it any way.
"Some things you mention don't resonate..." do you mean for all the writers, or just Maya or Sarasgirl? I definitely assume everyone's taste varies (hence my justification for researching one fandom for my scholarly work) and it's why it varies which is fascinating. I mean, both of us probably avoid ffnet like the plague, except for certain reliably rec'd works. So we're both choosing among a raft of usually better-written fics, and get to be pickier on taste.
The genre stuff is someday going to be a chapter in my book, if I ever can focus on it -- the cultural studies theory one, not my novel, which gets first priority! I think I posted some in a really rough form on lj a year or so ago. I'd love if we could talk more about it; I have a horrible time writing theory when no one I know really wants to read critical theory, or any other kind, and grad school was a constant barrage of argument and synthesis.
At any rate, the short version is to answer the question "what is genre," I look at the genres in HP fanfic and conclude that in fact there's more than one audience for the same body of fic -- or to be more precise, the multiple audiences lead to a shifting definition of what a "good story" is and should contain. (The underresearched part is my not interacting sufficiently with ffnet readers to find out why in the world they recommend "good fics" which fits NONE of my standards, nor any English teacher's. clearly, they've developed their concept of the genre themselves, which fits my specialty -- audience theory -- and is therefore quite exciting, since most of us in the f-lists I know have more or less applied the concept of what makes good reading from English classes and such.
In the process of pondering this and other things, and going to Wiscon the scandalous year a slash fanfic was on the longlist of nominations and everyone was yelling at everyone about it, I started trying to develop a definition of genre which actually represents how I see genre functioning in real life. Basically, since I'm a crit theorist, it's based on economics: genre depends on marketing niche. (And why couldn't I think of that lovely soundbite when I was writing my presentation for wiscon?)!!! So among genres, the literary genre, which is of course generally seen as a non-genre by literary-trained people, is the "real" term for what the literary world -- academy and traditional -- defines as "good."
Does that make sense? It's really hard to summarise what I hope will end up a chapter in a critical analysis and ethnography of fandom as a site of struggle.
your point on themes is well-taken, btw. I'm biased here, because I always interpret themes from my own bias and tend to miss the writers' intention of what the theme is. I think Sarasgirl also has that, and some of the others as well (like Resonance). I prefer stories where people are complicated and no one's perfect, but some try to be good more than others -- so I guess that's the connecting theme for me.
Gads, and I still haven't commented on your literary comments! I have opinions, but will save them for a time when I've already committed less verbiage. Suffice it to say, we studied Ethan Frome and Silas Marner, neither of them inspiring. I loved thackeray since I was 13, and read him without knowing it was literature, which helped -- teachers of the literary genre ask the wrong questions, generally, imnsho. You understand, I was a maverick English major all the way to my MFA-poetry, at which point I saw the light and switched fields to Rhetoric, where I fit nicely. So I do tend to think of my writing as Art, and the workshops at UW helped me along there. The Iowa workshop as far as I can tell seem to think of Fiction as something a little more... well, like a craft, I suppose. No arete. I am absolutely convinced that the "look how clever I am" phenomenon you describe -- and I totally agree with -- comes from the Iowa workshop primarily. Remind me sometime to tell you about me watching "The World According to Garp" with a less cynical poet. Workshops are extremely useful, but dangerous places: shove-tail-in-mouth-and-swallow sort of places, demanding ever more inventive style and ever less real people.
I'll talk about Seattle in the other post! Love to hear your comments on this. What is your profession?
Re: A Little about Recognisability
We may have to take this offline eventually just for length -- we both like to write looong. I did mean "If You've a Ready Mind." I didn't care for "Quality of Mercy" at all because the ending belied the rest (you probably read my comments on that. For Maya, the most significant difference between her fanfic (most of it) and her original fic that I could find is that she is a guaranteed stitch in fanfic, with the possible exception of Underwater Light; can't quite remember that one in detail. "Drop Dead Gorgeous" is my absolute favourite work of hers; it combines angst and humour I think seamlessly, which is always nicer than either separately to me.
Yes, it's finished -- I think even the epilogue. v. long, and it doesn't let one down -- which I considered a MAJOR possibility, because I saw no way it could end happily, or even... contentedly? Well worth it. As to Victorian, I totally agree -- I'd also like to see Draco as Sherlock and HP as Watson, only magical. Stray did a great story based on that, but more modern.... and with the casting reversed. Well, it's more CSI with magic, I guess. Loved it any way.
"Some things you mention don't resonate..." do you mean for all the writers, or just Maya or Sarasgirl? I definitely assume everyone's taste varies (hence my justification for researching one fandom for my scholarly work) and it's why it varies which is fascinating. I mean, both of us probably avoid ffnet like the plague, except for certain reliably rec'd works. So we're both choosing among a raft of usually better-written fics, and get to be pickier on taste.
The genre stuff is someday going to be a chapter in my book, if I ever can focus on it -- the cultural studies theory one, not my novel, which gets first priority! I think I posted some in a really rough form on lj a year or so ago. I'd love if we could talk more about it; I have a horrible time writing theory when no one I know really wants to read critical theory, or any other kind, and grad school was a constant barrage of argument and synthesis.
At any rate, the short version is to answer the question "what is genre," I look at the genres in HP fanfic and conclude that in fact there's more than one audience for the same body of fic -- or to be more precise, the multiple audiences lead to a shifting definition of what a "good story" is and should contain. (The underresearched part is my not interacting sufficiently with ffnet readers to find out why in the world they recommend "good fics" which fits NONE of my standards, nor any English teacher's. clearly, they've developed their concept of the genre themselves, which fits my specialty -- audience theory -- and is therefore quite exciting, since most of us in the f-lists I know have more or less applied the concept of what makes good reading from English classes and such.
In the process of pondering this and other things, and going to Wiscon the scandalous year a slash fanfic was on the longlist of nominations and everyone was yelling at everyone about it, I started trying to develop a definition of genre which actually represents how I see genre functioning in real life. Basically, since I'm a crit theorist, it's based on economics: genre depends on marketing niche. (And why couldn't I think of that lovely soundbite when I was writing my presentation for wiscon?)!!! So among genres, the literary genre, which is of course generally seen as a non-genre by literary-trained people, is the "real" term for what the literary world -- academy and traditional -- defines as "good."
Does that make sense? It's really hard to summarise what I hope will end up a chapter in a critical analysis and ethnography of fandom as a site of struggle.
your point on themes is well-taken, btw. I'm biased here, because I always interpret themes from my own bias and tend to miss the writers' intention of what the theme is. I think Sarasgirl also has that, and some of the others as well (like Resonance). I prefer stories where people are complicated and no one's perfect, but some try to be good more than others -- so I guess that's the connecting theme for me.
Gads, and I still haven't commented on your literary comments! I have opinions, but will save them for a time when I've already committed less verbiage. Suffice it to say, we studied Ethan Frome and Silas Marner, neither of them inspiring. I loved thackeray since I was 13, and read him without knowing it was literature, which helped -- teachers of the literary genre ask the wrong questions, generally, imnsho. You understand, I was a maverick English major all the way to my MFA-poetry, at which point I saw the light and switched fields to Rhetoric, where I fit nicely. So I do tend to think of my writing as Art, and the workshops at UW helped me along there. The Iowa workshop as far as I can tell seem to think of Fiction as something a little more... well, like a craft, I suppose. No arete. I am absolutely convinced that the "look how clever I am" phenomenon you describe -- and I totally agree with -- comes from the Iowa workshop primarily. Remind me sometime to tell you about me watching "The World According to Garp" with a less cynical poet. Workshops are extremely useful, but dangerous places: shove-tail-in-mouth-and-swallow sort of places, demanding ever more inventive style and ever less real people.
I'll talk about Seattle in the other post! Love to hear your comments on this. What is your profession?