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Fandom far afield
When was the last time you participated in fandom on the internet not through a journaling site? I don't really mean posting fanfic to something like fanfiction.net, unless you also post and discuss in the forums there. I mean discussion, meta, the posting of fanfic, the making of graphics, etc, all being share through a medium other than LJ, DW, Insane Journal, JournalFen, etc. This would be a forum, website, mailing list . . . if you did something like a fanzine, not online, I'm interested in that too.
1) What fandom was it?
2) What was the medium? (e.g. was it a forum, a mailing list, etc)
3) When was this?
4) Are you still active in that fandom?
5) Why did you participate there, and not at a journaling site?
6) Are you more active in fandom on journaling sites or at other places?
7) How did the different mode of interaction affect your fandom participation?
8) Does there seem to you to be a difference in fen between the other medium and journaling sites? What are the differences? Why do you think those differences exist? Is it the nature of that fandom, or do you think it has anything to do with where that fandom is taking place?
9) What were the fen in the other medium's thoughts on yaoi? (No, seriously. What was the general sentiment towards slash?)
10) Was it easier or harder to get into a fandom through a medium other than a journaling site?
11) Which medium do you prefer?
If it sounds like I'm doing a study, I'm not. I'm just dabbling around in this other fandom, the fen of which seems mainly to congregate around a forum rather than playing on LJ/DW. I'm wondering how many people share my experiences there. Forums used to be my main method of fandom access. I was comfortable in them and found LJ inconvenient and not very suited to my style. I became used to it because I decided a lot of cool people were here...and now I'm beginning to think it's the only way!
1) What fandom was it?
2) What was the medium? (e.g. was it a forum, a mailing list, etc)
3) When was this?
4) Are you still active in that fandom?
5) Why did you participate there, and not at a journaling site?
6) Are you more active in fandom on journaling sites or at other places?
7) How did the different mode of interaction affect your fandom participation?
8) Does there seem to you to be a difference in fen between the other medium and journaling sites? What are the differences? Why do you think those differences exist? Is it the nature of that fandom, or do you think it has anything to do with where that fandom is taking place?
9) What were the fen in the other medium's thoughts on yaoi? (No, seriously. What was the general sentiment towards slash?)
10) Was it easier or harder to get into a fandom through a medium other than a journaling site?
11) Which medium do you prefer?
If it sounds like I'm doing a study, I'm not. I'm just dabbling around in this other fandom, the fen of which seems mainly to congregate around a forum rather than playing on LJ/DW. I'm wondering how many people share my experiences there. Forums used to be my main method of fandom access. I was comfortable in them and found LJ inconvenient and not very suited to my style. I became used to it because I decided a lot of cool people were here...and now I'm beginning to think it's the only way!
By Metafandom
1) What fandom was it?
Three, actually.
1)Umineko no Naku Koro ni Fandom
2)general 'Yuri' Fandom (meaning F/F in anime/manga)
3)Touhou Fandom.
The three are not directly connected.
2) What was the medium? (e.g. was it a forum, a mailing list, etc)
1+2:Different forums
3)two work-safe imageboards for Touhou (one for general discussion, fanart, fanfic, and videos, the other for translation of japanese fan and official work).
3) When was this?
Today, in all three cases.
4) Are you still active in that fandom?
Yup, for all three.
5) Why did you participate there, and not at a journaling site?
I have yet to see something comparable on a journaling site. The topic of F/F is pretty much completely neglected on journaling sites, and Umineko on LJ isn't really focussing on the parts that interest me. Touhou is getting somewhat popular in RP circles on LJ, but that's it.
Also, on LJ, female characters are pretty much only considered when their lack is bemoaned, which usually mystifies me, since all my favorite canons have high numbers of important, strong (in terms of character, not necessarily physical power...although that happens too, in some cases) female characters, and such a view point seems to simply not exist in LJ-compatible fandoms that aren't, well, dead.
6) Are you more active in fandom on journaling sites or at other places?
Other places.
7) How did the different mode of interaction affect your fandom participation?
The modes do not matter to me, what matters is the content discussed. The medium did not affect my participation much at all.
8) Does there seem to you to be a difference in fen between the other medium and journaling sites? What are the differences? Why do you think those differences exist? Is it the nature of that fandom, or do you think it has anything to do with where that fandom is taking place?
LJ fandom seems to be more occupied with slash, and seems to dislike female characters a lot more. Other mediums like female characters a lot more. In fact, two of the three fandoms mentioned above are all about female characters.
Why? I don't know, I think it's because LJ-fandom is largely equal to the so-called 'Media Fandom', which seems to be for US-American series, which are largely male dominated and barely have stories passing the Bechdel test. It's probably natural to mostly find male characters in these series interesting, as female ones are written as accessoires for male ones for the most part. I just avoid canons like that, and thus can't really connect with media fandom much.
Re: By Metafandom
There's a few whiny yaoi-hating fanboys [How I hate them] in the yuri forum, but they are drowned out by more sane people who are either yaoi fans themselves, or who don't have an issue with it (the later usually by the argument that guys coupled means women are free to be coupled with each other. It also helps that several popular yuri mangaka also do yaoi)
Umineko seems neutral on the issue. Some people ship several male characters with each other (which isn't that easy, actually, more female characters again), others ship het. I only have seen grumbling about yaoi fans twice. The yuri pairing gets more people hating, despite a canonical "I love you" from one character, and a couple dozen "I looooveeeeee heerrrr" from the other.
The Touhou fandom, finally, is an odd case, it's the only of the three that is largely male (I'd guess at least 70% guys in the fandom). There's some dislike for yaoi, but there are also some very well known and popular fans that love yaoi, and ship it for Touhou.
That sounds easier than it is: Touhou has a couple dozen female characters, and about three male characters. Two of them only exist in one line in a female characters description. Another runs a shop and exists only in side stories. As you can imagine, shipping them is difficult.
Nevertheless, yaoi material made it even into larger "online-fanzines" the fandom used to put out, and there weren't all that many complaints. But to be fair: Some people DID complain. I personally like the work of the few yaoi shippers. It's adorable!
10) Was it easier or harder to get into a fandom through a medium other than a journaling site?
Easier, only because I find navigating forums a little easier: Seeing 50 topics at once is easier for me than scrolling through a long friend page. But it doesn't matter that much.
11) Which medium do you prefer?
None, I care more for content, less for medium. If LJ hosted the fandoms of three forums in ways that worked for me, while forums wouldn't, I'd be more active in LJ.
LJ, to me, is not the ultimate or perfect way to do fandom, it's just one way. It's not particularly more or less suitable, in my eyes. What really matters is WHAT is discussed.
Re: By Metafandom
This is interesting. All the debates I see about femslash have to do with "why isn't there more of it here?" and "why isn't it equated with slash?" The latter argument has to do (sometimes) with those who don't see female homosexuality as homosexuality at all, or somehow less homosexual than male homosexuality. It's a ridiculous argument, but it also means that most of the people I see whining about slash don't whine as much about femslash.
yaoi material made it even into larger "online-fanzines" the fandom used to put out
It has been my experience that yaoi is more accepted than slash. Of course, they are the same thing! But the term "yaoi" will refer to specific canon (i.e. usually Japanese in origin), and will be used by specific fen (i.e., the fen who enjoy manga, anime, et al). In manga and anime and other forms of Japanese canon, yaoi is an established genre, whereas slash is still this zit on the face of Western media.
If LJ hosted the fandoms of three forums in ways that worked for me, while forums wouldn't, I'd be more active in LJ.
this is why I'm on lj. I think it's a bad way to do fandom, actually, but it's where my people and my content is.
What really matters is WHAT is discussed.
I agree; what I'm trying to decipher is whether the medium affects what is discussed, or whether a certain type of people, who discuss certain types of things, are more attracted to one medium or another, or whether certain people are attracted to certain fandoms which lend themselves to a specific medium, and so on. In short: why are journaling sites more focussed on slash than femslash?
Oh--and thanks for answering all these questions! This is definitely a different perspective than I've gotten yet!
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why does femslash need "fem"
You'll laugh, but this is one of the reasons I prefer the term yuri. Plus, yuri means lily, and I like those flowers! Yay lilies.
it's because LJ-fandom is largely equal to the so-called 'Media Fandom'
To be fair, I may be exaggerating here. I am not 100% sure there, it's just my perception. Not trying to paint media fandom as bad or something.
(and no, I didn't want to categorically disagree with anything you said, either!)
or somehow less homosexual than male homosexuality.
I think the "less homosexual" thing is spot on - in some parts of anime fandom you can see that a lot. Those complaining about yaoi characters ("icky") usually simply deny that lesbian character exist at all - even if there's kisses, love declarations, and such. Clearly just friends.
There used to be a group called 'Save our Sailors' in Sailor Moon, who actually made up a fake interview to prove that two characters in 'Sailor Moon' were not lesbian, and continued to spread it half a year after the author of the series told the american fandom that, of course the characters were lesbian.
It'd be funny, if it'd not be so offensive.
whereas slash is still this zit on the face of Western media.
Also a good point, I think. Recently there has been a lot of M/M in novel form in the west too, so maybe, in a decade, it'll be different. I'd sure hope so.
In short: why are journaling sites more focussed on slash than femslash?
My pet theory would be 'random chance'. But as said: I may be completely wrong, and may think so just because I happened to "grow up" online with forums. I don't know.
Anyway, I'm glad it was at least somewhat useful! Upon rereading it while answering you, I feared what I wrote came across a bit harsh. I'm actually German(although I do not take part in german fandom, and prefer the english one) , so not using english as a native language, and sometimes come across a bit harsh when trying to voice my opinion on something. If so, I'm sorry. ^^;
no subject
It's my perception that LJ is a media based fandom as well; I just never thought of it that way--mostly due to the preponderance of Harry Potter. But HP isn't like other book fandoms. I don't know where Twilight is situated, but that is not like other book fandoms either, I would imagine.
Too bad about Sailor Moon :o( People are dumn.
so maybe, in a decade, it'll be different. I'd sure hope so.
I think things *are* changing. Since the late 90s there have been a lot of shows and movies in which the gay character is the helpful/comedic sidekick. I find this annoying, but still a HUGE step forward from when gay characters were not portrayed at all. If the next generation grows up comfortable with the idea of gay people being around them, being their friends, etc, eventually we may get to the point where gay love stories and gay characters become mainstream.
I feared what I wrote came across a bit harsh.
By no means. This perspective is important, and really made me think about things I hadn't considered about LJ yet. Thanks again.
Re: By Metafandom
I feel like there's a different type of fen there, but I don't know why. Is it the fandom? Is it the medium? Is it the type of people who are attracted to this fandom are also attracted to this medium are also attracted to heterocentricity and traditional gender roles? What is the relationship between these elements?
So now I'm feeling kind of, "Oy, this forum is so conservative; LJ is the liberalist place on cyberearth!" But what you say is true--I see a lot of het and slash on LJ, but not a lot of femslash (and yeah, that age old argument: why does femslash need "fem", and male slash is just slash?), and overall I do see a preoccupation with men. (The circles I tend to frequent on LJ seem interested in women to a closer-to-equal degree as they are in men, but yeah, overall, the slant is heavy on the male side.)
One thing that is interesting is that I've noticed on Dreamwidth there seems to be more people interested in female characters, and gender studies in general.
it's because LJ-fandom is largely equal to the so-called 'Media Fandom'
This is interesting, too. The fandom of the forum I'm going to is based on a Victorian novel. A few years ago there was a BBC adaptation of it, which is why the fandom is hoppin'. I started wondering about the difference between LJ fandoms and not-LJ fandoms because I noticed there seemed to be certain sorts of fandoms LJ hasn't absorbed--mostly, it's not the happenin' place for the 19th c. novels I'm interested in. But now that I look at it, it does seem centered on TV, new movies, and blockbuster book series (AKA Harry Potter).