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Rant On Characterization!
When I first started reading fanfic, around 6 years ago, I read a lot of character bashing. It always kind of boggled me. It seemed obvious that the writer couldn't possibly believe that that was how such and so a character really was in canon, but rather that the writer was pushing an agenda: mongering hate for a character they didn't like, or what was more distasteful to me, for a character that was competition for their 'ship of choice. Now, I say it was confusing for me. It was also frustrating for me, because I would prefer to see the characters as they were actually portrayed in canon.
So when, actually about 5 years later, I found lj, where everyone talks about fic and fic writing and is much more intelligent on average, I was really pleased to find that many people actually dislike bashing. Many people not only dislike the negative motivations on the part of the writer, but actually view bashing as bad writing, because it doesn't hold to canon, because it is about the writer's preferences, because it's an easy way out for writing a character you don't like, instead of taking the time to understand them. In fact, around the parts of fandom in which I play, this is pretty much taken for granted. Bashing is in bad taste, a squick, a big no-no. And man, is it nice to be around people who feel that way.
Okay, but most of us still dislike certain characters. Instead of bashing, the number one solution is not to write said characters. But say the character you hate is Spike, and the characters you absolutely love happen to be Buffy and Angel, and you want to do a fic in which Buffy comes to LA mid-AtS S5 and gradually picks up a relationship again with Angel. If you want to write that scenario, pretty much, imo, you're going to be writing some Spike, or at least writing characters talking about Spike. Saying, "pretend Spike didn't come back to life" is, in some ways, just plain lazy (bad) writing. Having Spike just not appear or not come up at all is bad writing, because it doesn't take in to consideration what's going on in canon (unless there is a good excuse, in which case describing the excuse will involve writing about Spike). Mentioning Spike, or having him appear briefly, without him being a significant factor in Buffy's life, Buffy's feeling, Buffy's relationship with Angel, Angel's life, Angel's feelings, and Angel's feelings for Buffy, is, imo, a form of bashing. Buffy comes to L.A. and sees him alive for the first time since Sunnydale, and the only thing important going on is whatever's up with her and Angel? That diminishes what Spike and Buffy had, that diminishes Spike, and that diminishes everything Buffy's been through in the last few years.
Okay, so, if you're set on doing your B/A fic during these times and these particular circumstances, if you're going to write a good fanfic, a well-written fic without bashing, what a writer should do is make the attempt. Make the attempt to write Spike, even though you don't like him. Make the attempt to be fair to him. Make the attempt to understand him. Make the attempt to respect B/S. Make the attempt to sympahtize with B/S. Try to write these characters in a way that's true to who they really are, in a way that takes into considerations the feeling they have for each other, and show how they're moving on from each other, and why--or how they're not moving on, how they will always have a something, but why Buffy's decided to be with Angel now, or whatever. Make the attempt.
Except, sometimes, I just hate that.
Bit of a hypocrite. I've written characters I don't like, characters with whom I don't sympathize, and/or characters whom I don't feel I understand as well as I ought. When I write those characters, I try to like them, or try to sympathize, or try to understand. I've had mixed success--sometimes I feel like I really did a character justice, sometimes not.
It's hit and miss all over. I've read Angel in fics by people who claim Angel is a character they tend to feel apathy towards, and I've liked their portrayal of Angel. But what's really bad, what really makes me feel pukey, is when a writer tries, and doesn't quite make it. A writer who feels apathetic toward Xander, or doesn't understand Xander, or hates Xander, but tries to be fair to him. A writer who think B/A is lame, but understands it's very much a part of both Buffy and Angel, so tries to take that into account in their B/S fic. Tries, and doesn't quite come up to snuff. It's more unpleasant to me than having a character just written out, or having the writer pretend that the character doesn't exist at all. To me, it's even more unpleasant than bashing.
When a character gets bashed, it's like I can tune it out. If Buffy is a bitch who's breaking up Spike and Xander's happiness because she's an attention mongering whore who hates gay people, I can pretend that she's an OC who just happens to be named Buffy. When a character doesn't appear, or doesn't show up when she should, or got sent on a mysterious mission to Honolulu, or got written out by a line in the author's note, I can say, yay! AU! What I can't do, is pretend that a character who walks like Buffy, talks like Buffy, acts like Buffy, feels like Buffy, isn't Buffy. But there were those little things, those few little tweaks to things she might really say, or things she might really do, that make me suspect you secretly hate her, make me suspect you're only writing her to be good and fair, make me suspect that what you'd really like to say is, "S/X forevah die Buffy die," or, what's somehow even worse, "S/X forevah. Buffy who?"--it's those little bits, and my big suspicions, those're what I really hate.
Okay, okay, I get that you the writer want Angel to get together with Spike, and you as an intelligent and good writer have realized that Buffy might have a thought or two about this, and you want to do justice to her, and to canon. But sometimes, instead of saying, "hey, nice try with that!" I sometimes just want to say: "BACK OFF MY BUFFY. Kill her off, make her into a raging evil screaming bitch, I don't care, but don't write her voice so well, don't make her seem like Buffy, if you're not going to portray her in exactly the light I feel like she should be portrayed."
Which is obviously, soulless and bitchy of me. After all, I'm not necessarily talking about bad writing. I'm not necessarily talking about bad characterization--not quite. (Though, okay, let's, just for a minute. In the same vein of this whole rant, what about when Angel doesn't get bashed, even though he's in the way of your Buffy/Spike, but instead he turns...matchmaker. Starts saying stuff like, "Buffy is so in love with Spike. They deserve to be happy together." Bad writing, but it's "politer" than bashing--but it makes me sicker than bashing. This is the sick that doesn't give you the little shivers like when Spike is confused about his actual paternity in the middle of sex, no siree. This is sick with a capital S which rhymes with mess which is VOMIT.)
Anyway, but really, I'm not talking about lazy writers who didn't make the effort. I'm talking about writers whose views of a character don't line up with mine. A difference of opinion, that's all. And, you know, this difference of opinion does happen just as much with people who love the characters I love, and the 'ships I love: I love B/A, but I don't like how lots of B/Aers like B/A. I love Wesley, but I haven't liked how some Wesley fans write Wesley.
But somehow, that's not the same. When a B/Aer writes B/A in a way that I don't like, there are probably two factors at work. 1) The writing is centered on B/A. The writing is, imo, sub-par. Thus, I can choose to to ignore the writing (the fic) completely. and 2) I don't get the feeling in reading this B/A, sub-par writing, that the author dislikes B/A. I get the feeling that the author doesn't view the 'ship the way I do, and can't write it the way I would want it to be written, but at least they respect what I like.
When a non-B/Aer writes B/A in a way that I don't like, but is trying to portray them in a good way rather than ignoring them or bashing them, two different things are usually at work. 1) The writing is usually not B/A centric--it's B/S or S/A or A/C or whatever. The writing can be great, especially since this is obviously a writer who tries, who takes the time, who understands a good fic is about characters we know from the show--that's why this writer, even though she hates B/A, is trying to respect B/A. Thus, if I want to read good B/S, or A/S, or A/C, or what have you...well, I could still ignore this fic because of the botched B/A, but I would be missing out. and 2. I get the feeling in reading this attempt at B/A, this attempt to write B/A well, that the author secretly hates B/A, or doesn't respect B/A, or is dismissive/apathetic/disinterested in B/A, and is just writing the B/A so their B/S, S/A, or C/A will make sense--like it's a chore. In the kind of fic I'm talking about, the kind where the author is trying but it's not working for me, I can smell it. I can smell the author saying, "Ugh, I have to do the B/A part now" and it makes me sick. Way sicker than if the author had just left B/A out of it, or if the author had bashed one or the other into an unrecognizable, rapist, crying, screaming banshee.
The point is, if you don't like Faith (whom I also love), but are trying to do justice to Faith in your Angel/Wesley, because this is good writing and you are a good writer . . . and if you fail in that, I will resent you more than I do bad writing and a bad writer who bashed Faith or left her out, just because the writer didn't like Faith. I will resent you more because I feel like you're a good writer and should've done justice to my woobie. The thing that feels the worst, in the pit of my stomach, is the idea that you are a good writer, and a good thinker, and took what you really saw in canon--and this is what you came up with. This isn't some evil bitch you made up and gave the name Faith--you thought about it and you tried and you see the other characters so well and so insightfully, and this is what you saw when you looked at my Faith. In short, I hate on you because you because I feel you're good, but you didn't do what I wanted. I won't hate on the bad ones who didn't do what I wanted. Them I ignore and go on about happily. No. I shall hate you because you are good, and because we disagree, and because I am small, and weak. You are good and you make me puke.
As you can see, I'm not exactly comfortable in this feeling (though I totally am, because look, see, I can be honest about it, and it's not really killing me to make this post). I think it is perverse of me. And yet, that's the way I feel. Show me really really hot A/S smut in which Buffy is ignored or bashed, and I will show you someone who doesn't really give a shit. Someone who can, in fact, still enjoy the smut. But show me a fantastic, kickass, really awesome A/S fic, trying to do justice to Buffy when the writer hates Buffy, show the Buffy bit in that fic not meeting my standards for Buffy--though the writing is decent and there's true effort involved--and I will show you my vomit.
Why is this?
I'm not saying writers shouldn't try to be fair to the characters they don't like, or shouldn't try to understand the characters they don't understand. I try. And I've seen others try and succeed so beautifully it makes my heart hurt--never would've guessed they were uncomfortable writing that character, or that that character isn't their favorite, or that they didn't really want to write that character but did because it was necessary to make the piece work. Never smelled that smell and never got sick at all. But when you try and fail, I feel like throwing tomatoes at you. Maybe it's just in the end, that people who don't try, those who bash, write out, and ignore, don't deserve the fruit. I don't know, but they just don't smell so bad to me. Their writing is worse, their approach, I feel, is worse--but they don't make my eye start twitching.
Thoughts? Opinions? Tomatoes?
ETA: And because I was too ranty to express myself well:![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
redbrickrose states my thoughts exactly here.
So when, actually about 5 years later, I found lj, where everyone talks about fic and fic writing and is much more intelligent on average, I was really pleased to find that many people actually dislike bashing. Many people not only dislike the negative motivations on the part of the writer, but actually view bashing as bad writing, because it doesn't hold to canon, because it is about the writer's preferences, because it's an easy way out for writing a character you don't like, instead of taking the time to understand them. In fact, around the parts of fandom in which I play, this is pretty much taken for granted. Bashing is in bad taste, a squick, a big no-no. And man, is it nice to be around people who feel that way.
Okay, but most of us still dislike certain characters. Instead of bashing, the number one solution is not to write said characters. But say the character you hate is Spike, and the characters you absolutely love happen to be Buffy and Angel, and you want to do a fic in which Buffy comes to LA mid-AtS S5 and gradually picks up a relationship again with Angel. If you want to write that scenario, pretty much, imo, you're going to be writing some Spike, or at least writing characters talking about Spike. Saying, "pretend Spike didn't come back to life" is, in some ways, just plain lazy (bad) writing. Having Spike just not appear or not come up at all is bad writing, because it doesn't take in to consideration what's going on in canon (unless there is a good excuse, in which case describing the excuse will involve writing about Spike). Mentioning Spike, or having him appear briefly, without him being a significant factor in Buffy's life, Buffy's feeling, Buffy's relationship with Angel, Angel's life, Angel's feelings, and Angel's feelings for Buffy, is, imo, a form of bashing. Buffy comes to L.A. and sees him alive for the first time since Sunnydale, and the only thing important going on is whatever's up with her and Angel? That diminishes what Spike and Buffy had, that diminishes Spike, and that diminishes everything Buffy's been through in the last few years.
Okay, so, if you're set on doing your B/A fic during these times and these particular circumstances, if you're going to write a good fanfic, a well-written fic without bashing, what a writer should do is make the attempt. Make the attempt to write Spike, even though you don't like him. Make the attempt to be fair to him. Make the attempt to understand him. Make the attempt to respect B/S. Make the attempt to sympahtize with B/S. Try to write these characters in a way that's true to who they really are, in a way that takes into considerations the feeling they have for each other, and show how they're moving on from each other, and why--or how they're not moving on, how they will always have a something, but why Buffy's decided to be with Angel now, or whatever. Make the attempt.
Except, sometimes, I just hate that.
Bit of a hypocrite. I've written characters I don't like, characters with whom I don't sympathize, and/or characters whom I don't feel I understand as well as I ought. When I write those characters, I try to like them, or try to sympathize, or try to understand. I've had mixed success--sometimes I feel like I really did a character justice, sometimes not.
It's hit and miss all over. I've read Angel in fics by people who claim Angel is a character they tend to feel apathy towards, and I've liked their portrayal of Angel. But what's really bad, what really makes me feel pukey, is when a writer tries, and doesn't quite make it. A writer who feels apathetic toward Xander, or doesn't understand Xander, or hates Xander, but tries to be fair to him. A writer who think B/A is lame, but understands it's very much a part of both Buffy and Angel, so tries to take that into account in their B/S fic. Tries, and doesn't quite come up to snuff. It's more unpleasant to me than having a character just written out, or having the writer pretend that the character doesn't exist at all. To me, it's even more unpleasant than bashing.
When a character gets bashed, it's like I can tune it out. If Buffy is a bitch who's breaking up Spike and Xander's happiness because she's an attention mongering whore who hates gay people, I can pretend that she's an OC who just happens to be named Buffy. When a character doesn't appear, or doesn't show up when she should, or got sent on a mysterious mission to Honolulu, or got written out by a line in the author's note, I can say, yay! AU! What I can't do, is pretend that a character who walks like Buffy, talks like Buffy, acts like Buffy, feels like Buffy, isn't Buffy. But there were those little things, those few little tweaks to things she might really say, or things she might really do, that make me suspect you secretly hate her, make me suspect you're only writing her to be good and fair, make me suspect that what you'd really like to say is, "S/X forevah die Buffy die," or, what's somehow even worse, "S/X forevah. Buffy who?"--it's those little bits, and my big suspicions, those're what I really hate.
Okay, okay, I get that you the writer want Angel to get together with Spike, and you as an intelligent and good writer have realized that Buffy might have a thought or two about this, and you want to do justice to her, and to canon. But sometimes, instead of saying, "hey, nice try with that!" I sometimes just want to say: "BACK OFF MY BUFFY. Kill her off, make her into a raging evil screaming bitch, I don't care, but don't write her voice so well, don't make her seem like Buffy, if you're not going to portray her in exactly the light I feel like she should be portrayed."
Which is obviously, soulless and bitchy of me. After all, I'm not necessarily talking about bad writing. I'm not necessarily talking about bad characterization--not quite. (Though, okay, let's, just for a minute. In the same vein of this whole rant, what about when Angel doesn't get bashed, even though he's in the way of your Buffy/Spike, but instead he turns...matchmaker. Starts saying stuff like, "Buffy is so in love with Spike. They deserve to be happy together." Bad writing, but it's "politer" than bashing--but it makes me sicker than bashing. This is the sick that doesn't give you the little shivers like when Spike is confused about his actual paternity in the middle of sex, no siree. This is sick with a capital S which rhymes with mess which is VOMIT.)
Anyway, but really, I'm not talking about lazy writers who didn't make the effort. I'm talking about writers whose views of a character don't line up with mine. A difference of opinion, that's all. And, you know, this difference of opinion does happen just as much with people who love the characters I love, and the 'ships I love: I love B/A, but I don't like how lots of B/Aers like B/A. I love Wesley, but I haven't liked how some Wesley fans write Wesley.
But somehow, that's not the same. When a B/Aer writes B/A in a way that I don't like, there are probably two factors at work. 1) The writing is centered on B/A. The writing is, imo, sub-par. Thus, I can choose to to ignore the writing (the fic) completely. and 2) I don't get the feeling in reading this B/A, sub-par writing, that the author dislikes B/A. I get the feeling that the author doesn't view the 'ship the way I do, and can't write it the way I would want it to be written, but at least they respect what I like.
When a non-B/Aer writes B/A in a way that I don't like, but is trying to portray them in a good way rather than ignoring them or bashing them, two different things are usually at work. 1) The writing is usually not B/A centric--it's B/S or S/A or A/C or whatever. The writing can be great, especially since this is obviously a writer who tries, who takes the time, who understands a good fic is about characters we know from the show--that's why this writer, even though she hates B/A, is trying to respect B/A. Thus, if I want to read good B/S, or A/S, or A/C, or what have you...well, I could still ignore this fic because of the botched B/A, but I would be missing out. and 2. I get the feeling in reading this attempt at B/A, this attempt to write B/A well, that the author secretly hates B/A, or doesn't respect B/A, or is dismissive/apathetic/disinterested in B/A, and is just writing the B/A so their B/S, S/A, or C/A will make sense--like it's a chore. In the kind of fic I'm talking about, the kind where the author is trying but it's not working for me, I can smell it. I can smell the author saying, "Ugh, I have to do the B/A part now" and it makes me sick. Way sicker than if the author had just left B/A out of it, or if the author had bashed one or the other into an unrecognizable, rapist, crying, screaming banshee.
The point is, if you don't like Faith (whom I also love), but are trying to do justice to Faith in your Angel/Wesley, because this is good writing and you are a good writer . . . and if you fail in that, I will resent you more than I do bad writing and a bad writer who bashed Faith or left her out, just because the writer didn't like Faith. I will resent you more because I feel like you're a good writer and should've done justice to my woobie. The thing that feels the worst, in the pit of my stomach, is the idea that you are a good writer, and a good thinker, and took what you really saw in canon--and this is what you came up with. This isn't some evil bitch you made up and gave the name Faith--you thought about it and you tried and you see the other characters so well and so insightfully, and this is what you saw when you looked at my Faith. In short, I hate on you because you because I feel you're good, but you didn't do what I wanted. I won't hate on the bad ones who didn't do what I wanted. Them I ignore and go on about happily. No. I shall hate you because you are good, and because we disagree, and because I am small, and weak. You are good and you make me puke.
As you can see, I'm not exactly comfortable in this feeling (though I totally am, because look, see, I can be honest about it, and it's not really killing me to make this post). I think it is perverse of me. And yet, that's the way I feel. Show me really really hot A/S smut in which Buffy is ignored or bashed, and I will show you someone who doesn't really give a shit. Someone who can, in fact, still enjoy the smut. But show me a fantastic, kickass, really awesome A/S fic, trying to do justice to Buffy when the writer hates Buffy, show the Buffy bit in that fic not meeting my standards for Buffy--though the writing is decent and there's true effort involved--and I will show you my vomit.
Why is this?
I'm not saying writers shouldn't try to be fair to the characters they don't like, or shouldn't try to understand the characters they don't understand. I try. And I've seen others try and succeed so beautifully it makes my heart hurt--never would've guessed they were uncomfortable writing that character, or that that character isn't their favorite, or that they didn't really want to write that character but did because it was necessary to make the piece work. Never smelled that smell and never got sick at all. But when you try and fail, I feel like throwing tomatoes at you. Maybe it's just in the end, that people who don't try, those who bash, write out, and ignore, don't deserve the fruit. I don't know, but they just don't smell so bad to me. Their writing is worse, their approach, I feel, is worse--but they don't make my eye start twitching.
Thoughts? Opinions? Tomatoes?
ETA: And because I was too ranty to express myself well:
redbrickrose states my thoughts exactly here.
Reply 1
So, from a reader's perspective, I agree with you to a certain extent. I've always argued, "Send the character you dislike out of town on a bus." Or at least de-emphasize them in some way. One way to do that is to set your story in a time and place where disliked character would either be: 1) absent or 2) not around as much. Granted, it limits the time and place in which you can set your story, but personally, I don't take it personally when something "organic" like that happens.
On the other hand, if you're gathering all the "old gang" together to deal with something, but manage to leave out just one or two characters using that same excuse, even though there are several other characters there who should be absent because of that same excuse, I do tend to get my back up.
For example: You want to write a rockin' B/A story that's post-Chosen. I don't think it's a stetch to set it one year later so it's set post-NFA. Spike could've been dusted in the final battle. Or maybe he's all-human William now and has no memory of ever being Spike. Plenty of excuses not to have Spike around, or have his presence limited. I would think it would be palpable.
On the other hand, say you've got a middle-of-NFA story where "the cavalry" arrives. I've already read several stories where everyone from Sunnydale shows, from Giles to Buffy to Willow to Dawn to Faith to Robin to Andrew, to Potential No. 43, yet Xander is completely absent. Usually his absence is explained in a throw away line (when the writer even bothers) that he's not there because he's "in Africa." Like you said, it's almost bashing (but not quite) just by omission. If you can yank Cho Ahn into an NFA fight, how hard is it to at least mention that Xander is there with several Slayers from Africa?
Yet I actully do feel guilty about disliking well-written stories where past relationships or existing emotional bonds between characters, as well as the characters themselves, are slightly twisted off what I perceive to be canon.
I actually do have some flexibility in how all the characters are portrayed in fanfic. Differing points of view and all that. It's like I have this line in my head. If Character X is on this side of my mental line, it's all cool. However, one or two steps beyond that turns me right off. It's the difference (I think) between portraying Xander as someone who knows is his comic books and genre television vs. an all-Star Trek all-the-time fanboi, for example. One side I can buy. The other side sets my teeth right on edge. It's becuse the writer came this close to getting him right, but only went as far as they needed to so they could slap some broad brush-strokes into the story (at least from my point of view).
Also, as a fanfic writer, while I tend to fall on the "set your story in a tme or place where you don't have to deal with certain characters" and "send them out of town on a bus," at the same time, trying to write the characters you dislike in a way that's sympathetic and well-rounded is also a challenge that's too good to pass up. See, I want to be able to write a character I sincerely dislike in such a way that fans of that character figure I've nailed them.
Re: Reply 2
In an opposite extreme, I am not a fan of Spike, therefore I don't write him that often. Yet I'm in the middle of writing a story where Spike is one of the central characters. To keep me honest, I grabbed six or seven people out of the dozen-and-a-half or so who (I think) write a well-balanced Spike to go over the story with a fine-toothed comb. It's working out well for me because all of them are being very good about FBing and beta-ing everything down to every word. They think I'm doing a fairly good job.
However, bet you dollars to donuts there'll be people who view Spike's characterization either to the right or to the left of me and my gang of six or seven betas. Someone, somewhere will be calling OOC on Spike when that story shows. That's not even a question in my mind. Part of it is my fault in a way, because I've never made a secret of the fact that Spike's not my favorite character, so people will be looking for OOC-ishness, even if I don't think it's really there.
And you're right. Like you I do feel a little hypocritical about it. Just because I don't like someone's characterization of, say, Xander doesn't mean that their point of view isn't invalid because they chose to highlight certain aspects of his personality more than others. Or because they very obviously are doing it to pay lip-service to the idea of being fair-minded in fanfiction and really don't, or can't, show that character within certain parameters.
I don't know if there's a resolution, nor am I sure that there should be. It's an interesting situation you've shown and it certainly gives me think-y thoughts. So thanks for that.
Re: Reply 2
The thing about writing in this kind of environment (and I've seen this come up every other cycle or so on metafandom, and the like) is that the reader knows the author, and that makes for a whole new kettle of fish. I want to say, oh, it's not your fault, because the readers should judge by the writing itself and not what you've said about yourself as a person in the fast, but yeah--in this environment, that's not going to happen.
A lot of the people in response to this have said, "Well, but you don't know if the writer hates Buffy, maybe the writer who wrote her that way loves Buffy and this is really her interpretation of Buffy." And well, that may be true, because of course what I was talking about was my subjective impression--my impression that the author secretly hates Buffy, no matter what the author feels or not. But I think part of the reason this whole rant came out of me is because it's been the case, often enough, where a characterization has felt . . . off and wrong and negative somehow when it seems like it shouldn't be because it was well written and used elements from canon, and *then* I found out the writer writing character X didn't like that character X, or that that writer almost ALWAYS writes Y/Z, for which character X is often the slated as "the competition", or something like that. And then I've gone back and reread and thought yeah, this person *sounds* like a Y/Z shipper, or someone who's really an X-hater at heart.
And it works the opposite way, too. If a known B/Ser says, "Hey guys! I'm writing Angel!" I approach the fic with skepticism. I don't *mean* to, especially since sometimes the B/A I've read by B/Sers I like better than B/A I've read by B/Aers, but I do it anyway. And hopefully it wasn't the only reason for this post or feeling so unsettled by characterizations written by someone trying to do justice to a character they don't like, but I *do* tend to notice it more when a character or ship feels "off" when the writer starts out by saying, "I'm a Buffy hater, but I tried to be fair to her in this fic." Again, I try not to and I shouldn't, but I do.
I don't know if there's a resolution, nor am I sure that there should be.
I don't think there's a resolution, especially because even if everybody in fandom had to obey me, I think the last thing I would ever tell anyone is, "Okay, just don't *try*". To me, making the serious effort to write well is--well, most importantly, as I said previously, it's *fun*. I just wish sometimes I wasn't reading the results.
It's an interesting situation you've shown and it certainly gives me think-y thoughts. So thanks for that.
And thanks so much for addressing it with the thought and care that you have. The point is both important and interesting to me, and in retrospect, I really wish I'd've taken the time to more clearly express the issue and my thoughts on the matter--but you really took the time to understand it here and think rationally about it, and I really appreciate your thoughts.
Re: Reply 1
I never would've advised this, before I realized what I wrote in the initial rant post (and I was realizing a lot of it as or just before I was writing it, which is why it came off more ranty and less thoughtful than it really should've been), but now I think it's really excellent advice.
I've almost always done that in fic, without even realizing I'm doing it. For instance, even though I love Spike, and love A/S and like B/S, the B/A I often want to write is *not* about Spike. Since I do think Spike is so important to both Buffy and Angel, and such a factor in considering B/A as a 'ship, I've in the past killed him off (in a hopefully believable fashion) or set fics in a time when he wouldn't be a big factor coming between the relationship.
But yeah, it has to be done right. Leaving Xander in Africa while Willow's managed to hop over from another astral plane or whatever does seem excessive. I think it's possible to write characters out in a *decent* way, but you do have to spend some time with the character to come up with those ways, and if you hate the character you're less likely to do that. But I'd rather someone take the time to fabricate a *good* excuse for Xander's absence than to expend that same effort on trying to write him when they don't care for *him*.
Yet I actully do feel guilty about disliking well-written stories where past relationships or existing emotional bonds between characters, as well as the characters themselves, are slightly twisted off what I perceive to be canon.
I've felt guilty, too. Which is one of the reasons I never really sat down and analyzed these feeling before I sat down and wrote this rant. I just--I can acknowledge they're good stories, but I've always felt I should *like* them, too.
I actually do have some flexibility in how all the characters are portrayed in fanfic. Differing points of view and all that. It's like I have this line in my head.
I love that flexibility. I love to see other interpretations. Yeah, some interpretations set my teeth on edge, and I used to think of that in the way that you do, with the mental line. But I realized, even characterizations of the characters I don't prefer, don't even like, that will make me click "back" *really* fast--they don't actually *bother* me unless I'm getting the impression from them that the author actually hates the character. I don't like everybody's-best-friend-Faith, but if you love her and that's the way you see her, eh, that's you're cuppa. But if you're writing her that way, or writing her much more true to character but in both cases, in a way that makes me feel like you actually despise her or don't care for her? Yeah, that's when I actually feel bothered. I'm not sure why, but I do.
Also, as a fanfic writer... I want to be able to write a character I sincerely dislike in such a way that fans of that character figure I've nailed them.
Oh, yeah! *This* is the dichotomy I keep trying to lay my finger on and hadn't til you said it. I keep saying, well, *intellectually*, I want everyone to try their best . . . but emotionally sometimes I'm bothered more by effort than bad lazy writing. . . But anyway, like I said, I'm a hypocrite: yeah! I want to do exactly that! Write the characters I'm unsure about! Write the characters I don't understand! Write the characters I don't feel sympathy for sometimes! I don't ever really see myself extensively writing characters I don't like or feel apathetic toward, but I've included one or two of them in a fic because I felt like they needed to be there, and *loved* the effort that took, lauded myself for trying. It was challenging, and fun.