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Let's talk about research for fic
I once had a teleplay writing class in which we each had to write a script for Law and Order. You had to research, not only your crime, but odd details dealing with biology or David Bowie or NYC. Up 'til then, I'd never really researched for a story. Right after that class I had a creative writing class in which we had to write a fiction short story based on a subject we researched. I noticed the research stories were significantly better than the stories we wrote first, which were non-researched based.
So, I'd learned my lesson. Research, even when you don't use it, can be felt. The weight of it can be there, making your story feel more real and you as an author more knowledgeable and thus, trustworthy. (The downside of it is research can be over-used, and the paragraphs about how chariots work feel like, "look I did research!". Or misused: spotty research on some stuff - good writing + sensational best seller techniques - making sense = Dan Brown.)
But apparently, I had not yet learned research = good for ALL writing. My first Jossverse fic was set in NYC, and although I did some spot-checking type research, my research wasn't thorough enough to make sense to . . . say, someone who'd actually been to NYC (![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
alleynyc pointed that out and helped, and a2zmom still is). I've found since I've started researching for fic, though, that the research is almost as fun as the writing. Doing the canon research necessary just brings back my love for the shows, and doing other kinds of research makes me feel all smart and know-y. So I figure hey, maybe other people feel the same way. Or not.
I. Canon research. Return to canon, by watching eps, reading transcripts, and looking at various web sites about canon (such as the Buffy Dialogue Database and the Buffy Trivia Guide).
A. Refresher course. If I'm doing something like reworking a scene I always go reread the scene to remember what happened.
B. Dialogue snatching. Sometimes I use dialogue directly from canon. (I try to credit the episode when I do this).
C. Detail scoping. For times when you need a book on demonology or a pair of shoes Buffy owns. (This is when something like a trivia guide comes in handy).
D. Voice research. I almost always read transcripts right before I write dialogue so a character's voice is fresh in my mind. Sometimes I make note of how things are phrased (Faith uses a lot of cliches) or words that often get used (a lot of Willow's insults/ pet names feel out of the fifties) etc.
II. Misc. fact research. All the details you might or might not need to write a good story.
A. Voice research. Sometimes writing a character's voice requires knowing how they talk where they're from (for Faith I researched Boston-talk), their profession/passion (for Fred I'd look up some physics, Xander some comics), their style of speech (for Dru I read both the Bible and nursery rhymes).spiralleds had a cool post about researching pop culture references (for characters in Buffyverse. You can't write a good Buffy or Xander or Cordelia without pop culture references. Which is why Cordy's, "Who's Colin Farrell?" line is the MOST TRAGIC LINE IN THE HISTORY OF TV.)
B. Location research. Everything from where what buildings are (a2zmom continually beats me over the head on this one) to the flora and fauna in a city I don't live in. Then, if anything takes place in buildings I've never been in, like a jail or monastery or NYC's Macy's, I research those too (or get a2zmom to do on-site research ;o)
C. Translations. Latin, German, Spanish, Klignon. I can't speak 'em so I go elsewhere to find 'em.
D. Plot-level research. If a story hinges on something technical or medical, or a specific time period or place, I make sure to read up. This is the most obvious form of research, something that a lot of people do, I think. (Has anyone found out about Angeusl and Spike and the opium and CORSETS? kthx.)
E. Itty bitty detail research. Because sometimes you just need to know the average length of a penis (har har, itty bitty detail) or the tensile strength of a human hair. Once, I spent two hours searching for what restaurant plates are made of--you know those resaurant plates, the kind that feel both ceramic but the really cheap kind of ceramic? I wanted a technical word, a word that would pop! out at you, and "ceramic" wasn't doing it for me. (I never found a poppier word, though.)
III. Style research.
(all of these are mostly the same thing.)
A. Inspiration. For instance, I read this book where all the words felt new and really seemed to stand out, and I wondered how the author did it. I noticed that instead of just saying something like "fabric" or "cotton" he'd use a specific, almost technical word, like "faille". I thought it'd be interesting to try, so I spent hours looking for a more specific word for ceramic.
B. Instruction. If I were to write a piece with a lot of dialogue or meaning beneath the words I'd read Vonnegut's Long Walk to Forever or Hemingway's Hills Like White Elephants to see how they did it.
B. Emulation. Sometimes I wonder if this is cheating. It's a more direct stealing then the two above. When I am writing a letter to someone important I want to sound official, but also dry, witty, and fun--so I go read Jane Austen and try to bring as much as her tone as I can into my own writing. To me this isn't any kind of plagarism, as her voice naturally becomes my own when I steal it for myself, as long as I don't take exact words and phrases.
[Poll #700205]
I'd love to hear more from you all. For instance, if you do what I'm calling "style research", what have you read to "get in the mood," and in order to write what? (For instance, in Bodiless Within the Bodies, I wanted the Tibet part to have long sentences, in a flowing style, with something distinctly Eastern in tone, so I picked up Hesse's Siddartha again and read a few pages. I don't think I was successful in capturing the tone I wanted, but I definitely think Hesse helped.) And what sites do you normally go to for canon research, besides Buffyworld and the ones listed above? What about translations, maps, details, pop culture, et al? Furthermore, how do you organize all these links? Do you keep them forever, create temp folders for the stories you're writing, or just flit through the sites and hope you'll never have to see them again?
Any crazy research story about spending hours trying to find what a restaurant plate might be made of? Any stories about how someone in fandom took you aside and said, "look kid, research?" Any stories about how much you love/loathe/fear research, and why?
That's it. Discuss.
So, I'd learned my lesson. Research, even when you don't use it, can be felt. The weight of it can be there, making your story feel more real and you as an author more knowledgeable and thus, trustworthy. (The downside of it is research can be over-used, and the paragraphs about how chariots work feel like, "look I did research!". Or misused: spotty research on some stuff - good writing + sensational best seller techniques - making sense = Dan Brown.)
But apparently, I had not yet learned research = good for ALL writing. My first Jossverse fic was set in NYC, and although I did some spot-checking type research, my research wasn't thorough enough to make sense to . . . say, someone who'd actually been to NYC (
alleynyc pointed that out and helped, and a2zmom still is). I've found since I've started researching for fic, though, that the research is almost as fun as the writing. Doing the canon research necessary just brings back my love for the shows, and doing other kinds of research makes me feel all smart and know-y. So I figure hey, maybe other people feel the same way. Or not.I. Canon research. Return to canon, by watching eps, reading transcripts, and looking at various web sites about canon (such as the Buffy Dialogue Database and the Buffy Trivia Guide).
A. Refresher course. If I'm doing something like reworking a scene I always go reread the scene to remember what happened.
B. Dialogue snatching. Sometimes I use dialogue directly from canon. (I try to credit the episode when I do this).
C. Detail scoping. For times when you need a book on demonology or a pair of shoes Buffy owns. (This is when something like a trivia guide comes in handy).
D. Voice research. I almost always read transcripts right before I write dialogue so a character's voice is fresh in my mind. Sometimes I make note of how things are phrased (Faith uses a lot of cliches) or words that often get used (a lot of Willow's insults/ pet names feel out of the fifties) etc.
II. Misc. fact research. All the details you might or might not need to write a good story.
A. Voice research. Sometimes writing a character's voice requires knowing how they talk where they're from (for Faith I researched Boston-talk), their profession/passion (for Fred I'd look up some physics, Xander some comics), their style of speech (for Dru I read both the Bible and nursery rhymes).
spiralleds had a cool post about researching pop culture references (for characters in Buffyverse. You can't write a good Buffy or Xander or Cordelia without pop culture references. Which is why Cordy's, "Who's Colin Farrell?" line is the MOST TRAGIC LINE IN THE HISTORY OF TV.)B. Location research. Everything from where what buildings are (
a2zmom continually beats me over the head on this one) to the flora and fauna in a city I don't live in. Then, if anything takes place in buildings I've never been in, like a jail or monastery or NYC's Macy's, I research those too (or get a2zmom to do on-site research ;o)C. Translations. Latin, German, Spanish, Klignon. I can't speak 'em so I go elsewhere to find 'em.
D. Plot-level research. If a story hinges on something technical or medical, or a specific time period or place, I make sure to read up. This is the most obvious form of research, something that a lot of people do, I think. (Has anyone found out about Angeusl and Spike and the opium and CORSETS? kthx.)
E. Itty bitty detail research. Because sometimes you just need to know the average length of a penis (har har, itty bitty detail) or the tensile strength of a human hair. Once, I spent two hours searching for what restaurant plates are made of--you know those resaurant plates, the kind that feel both ceramic but the really cheap kind of ceramic? I wanted a technical word, a word that would pop! out at you, and "ceramic" wasn't doing it for me. (I never found a poppier word, though.)
III. Style research.
(all of these are mostly the same thing.)
A. Inspiration. For instance, I read this book where all the words felt new and really seemed to stand out, and I wondered how the author did it. I noticed that instead of just saying something like "fabric" or "cotton" he'd use a specific, almost technical word, like "faille". I thought it'd be interesting to try, so I spent hours looking for a more specific word for ceramic.
B. Instruction. If I were to write a piece with a lot of dialogue or meaning beneath the words I'd read Vonnegut's Long Walk to Forever or Hemingway's Hills Like White Elephants to see how they did it.
B. Emulation. Sometimes I wonder if this is cheating. It's a more direct stealing then the two above. When I am writing a letter to someone important I want to sound official, but also dry, witty, and fun--so I go read Jane Austen and try to bring as much as her tone as I can into my own writing. To me this isn't any kind of plagarism, as her voice naturally becomes my own when I steal it for myself, as long as I don't take exact words and phrases.
[Poll #700205]
I'd love to hear more from you all. For instance, if you do what I'm calling "style research", what have you read to "get in the mood," and in order to write what? (For instance, in Bodiless Within the Bodies, I wanted the Tibet part to have long sentences, in a flowing style, with something distinctly Eastern in tone, so I picked up Hesse's Siddartha again and read a few pages. I don't think I was successful in capturing the tone I wanted, but I definitely think Hesse helped.) And what sites do you normally go to for canon research, besides Buffyworld and the ones listed above? What about translations, maps, details, pop culture, et al? Furthermore, how do you organize all these links? Do you keep them forever, create temp folders for the stories you're writing, or just flit through the sites and hope you'll never have to see them again?
Any crazy research story about spending hours trying to find what a restaurant plate might be made of? Any stories about how someone in fandom took you aside and said, "look kid, research?" Any stories about how much you love/loathe/fear research, and why?
That's it. Discuss.
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Dictionary of English slang (http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/)
Babelfish (http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr). Although I recommend finding a real speaker of the language for anything beyond the most basis one word translations. Ex: good=bueno
World Wide Weather and climate conditions (http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/EGLL/2004/5/19/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA).
Time Zone Clock (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/)
I've got other links in my "research" folder, but most are specific to details I can't imagine would be useful for others.
Oh, I've done lots of things that make me shake my head in amusement.
I've rewatched a scene over and over, trying to figure out if Spike has boots on or is barefoot in a scene in S6, then quized my flist as well.
I've begged for information on the layout of the Summers' home and was sent a diagram form one kind soul and pointed to a S4(?) extra that was all about the layout of the house.
I've googled for the perfect grotto in Italy, only to decide it wouldn't fit my need, which morphed into googling for caves in Ireland, switching to a cottage, which I googled for a look at it (but did play fast and loose with the combo of quaint/modern day features). Then quizzed fannish friends who were into wicca, etc. about power points, which lead to research about ley-lines, which lead to reading about corpse roads. I then added in some stuff that tends to by symbolically true across culture/religion - that evergreens represent life, blah, blah, blah and blended it together with Day of the Dead tradition. And after writing, had friends with wiccan cred look it over for believability, etc. Oy. Talk about the long and winding road.
Currently I'm plotting out characters moving around various parts of England. I've got my "The Rough Guide to Britain" and Google and eventually finding a UK beta. It is fraught with uncertainty, since it is a country to which I've never been. Such as: Would a trip from London to Glasgow require an overnight? Does one need a passport to travel into Scotland from England? How come everything in the Buffyverse is set in Cotswold? (The Deeper Well, the Coven, and the Watcher Council retreat centre.)
But for all the research I can't help myself but do, I keep in mind that I do not need to reach perfection, which is hard for a closet obsessive compulsive. If I don't do less research that the writers on the show who made the canon did, then life will go forward. Because I could seriously nit pick the way they think a university residence hall is run. I know others who would complain about the wicca/magic usage. Not to mention British fans who can point to the whacked out varient of Britishisms used, particularly by Spike. And let's not get into the Buffyverse version of Victorian England. Their research was a mix of truth and fiction and best guess wiht a deadline. If it was good enough for the Buffycanonverse, it's good enough for me.
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Not sure if you actually need answers to these questions, but as a Brit I can provide them.
Such as: Would a trip from London to Glasgow require an overnight?
No, you can do it in one day if you set off early from London. I guess it would take about 7 or 8 hours by train. There are sleepers for those who'd rather travel overnight.
Does one need a passport to travel into Scotland from England?
No. It's the United Kingdom, no passports necessary.
How come everything in the Buffyverse is set in Cotswold?
Okay, that one's a total mystery to me too. Maybe Joss really really likes the Cotswolds.
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Your research reminds me of me (and has me singing The Beatles, but that's neither here nor there)! It's amazing how far you can go, from wicca to evergreens to Day of the Dead. What surprises me sometimes is how much knowledge comes from it all--I learned more about the Beats generation researching for fanfic than I ever did in any lit class, and I'm an English major!
Looks like
I only do the research I feel necessary to write the fic. That leads to knowing a lot of odd things, like chemicals that are released into the blood stream when a small rodent like animal feels the emotion "fear," but not knowing something much more general like how long rodents generally live. But most of the time research requires that I learn a lot of general things before I get to the specific stuff.
So I guess I'm not so very obsessive compulsive about it. As you say, canon itself was unrealistic--vampires aside, you're damn skippy about Jossverse Victorian England. But while it had a lot of problems, I bet old timey costumes and muddy streets were enough to make SOME people say, "yeah, okay, 19th c. England." The point of research is, imo, to have the highest amount of people saying that as possible. It's to create a feeling. In fact, setting itself is to create a feeling. You just can't hammer all the details into service of the tone/theme/point that people start saying, "But you don't need a passport to get to Scotland!"
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If you are writing about Xander in Kinshasa, 1 would be "I learn to spell Kinshasa" and 5 would be "I fly to Kinshasa for 6 months and takecopious notes".
I gave this a hearty 5, because I've actually done that. Well, not flown to Kinshasa but I went to Idaho and Montana to research the location for an X-Files comic. (I combined it with a volunteer project in Utah, so it wasn't quite as insane as it sounds.)
I'd love to hear more from you all. For instance, if you do what I'm calling "style research", what have you read to "get in the mood," and in order to write what?
I do that too, on the graphics level. And nope, has nothing to do with plagiarism imho. I pick up comics of artists I admire to get in the mood, and let the style subtly (hopefully) influence mine.
Also, I have no idea what's going on with the corsets and the opium. Huh?
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It DOES sound a wee bit insane, but I can't at all condemn you! That sounds cool! Actually, when I was in Europe for a year, I was taking a trip, and kinda centered it around going to Salzburg, because I'm a big Sound of Music fan. Mostly I was going for fannish-but-not-fic reasons, but I certainly kept my eyes peeled for fic inspiration! (Did the same thing at the Opera Garnier in Paris, for Phantom of the Opera fic. I'm such a fandom slut!)
I do that too, on the graphics level.
I hadn't even thought of it in terms of graphics. Come to think of it, my mom is a potter, and every time she wants to do a pot she hits her magazines etc and draws ideas from them, too.
Also, I have no idea what's going on with the corsets and the opium. Huh?
I don't have any idea either. I watched this movie once, Onegin (based on the novel in verse by Pushkin) in which Ralph Fiennes was wearing a corset in 19th c. Russia. It's always been stuck in my head as a rather sexy image, and I know I've seen Victorian drawings/references to men in corsets. I asked once whether it was common, and if so whether Spike or Angelus would've worn corsets. No one really seemed to know. Lynne says below that gentlemen wore corsets only when they were portly. But I really want SPIKE IN A CORSET AND NOT AS A CROSS-DRESSING THING.
The opium is just for kicks. I'm keen on writing a historical Fanged Four in which everything is narrated through an opium haze.
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About corsets. Well I don't know what the etiquette is for quoting other people's work, but two great bits of fic featuring corstes come to mind - you probably know them - there's a scene in Coquette's A Winter's Tale where Darla makes Angel lace her corset - and make sure he gets the ribbons straight; and in Julia_here's Not Just Another Irish Rose - again this is Darla - she's getting dressed in a cabin on a boat with a great deal of threatening snap and crackle. Julia describes how she drops her crinoline into place over her head and the hoops bounce upward slightly with the force of it. In both cases the writing is wonderfully precise, vivid, and indicates a great deal about the power structures in play - with underwear! And both examples work very nicely, both in a literal sense and metaphorically, to illustrate a female deployment of power. While evoking titillation in the way fancy underwear does...and now I'm thinking about long shirts and undone cuffs and trailing braces...that could be sexy...never have read a fic in which men's underwear got fetishised...
Well you know, I don't consider myself a writer, but I love the craft aspect of writing. Not because it's easy, but because I don't have emotional issues about it. One thing I find quite interesting is transfering ideas about technique from one medium to another, say moving image to writing. For instance, one of the first things you learn in moving image work is how important the pauses are. Firstly, to give the viewer a chance to notice what has actually happened, and secondly because pauses create mood, pace and meaning. Thus, conventionally, you would begin any moving image work with an establishing shot. Without this, the viewers ability to understand what happens next is compromised. It's a rule you can play with (like if you wanted to confuzzle the viewer), but you need to understand it first. Then, once the action starts, if anything significant happens you would do well to pause for a while to 1) emphasise it was significant, and 2) make sure the viewer has actually seen it. Now I want to ask you how you make this sort of emphasis in writing - I suppose the question is, how you use timing in writing, because I don't feel it's a matter of simple description of stuff happenning. Yeah. I'm thinking of a passage I wrote and I really needed it to go slower - there didn't need to be anything more happening, but there needed to be some sort of pause. So how do you deal with kind of thing?
Goddness, I've just noticed that's completely off-topic.
I'm going to continue in another comment so this doesn't get too long.
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and now I'm thinking about long shirts and undone cuffs and trailing braces...that could be sexy...never have read a fic in which men's underwear got fetishised...
This was one of the things I always loved in the Jane Austen fandom/cheap historical romance novels. Back in the day, gentlemen wore suit coats and things, so it was rather risque to see a man in his shirt sleeves. So "his loosened cravat" and untucked shirt all become, uh, fetishised.
I have a whole lot of posts like this I want to do about writing, that really just open up the forum for everyone to come talk about it, and what you're saying about pacing is really interesting so I'll probably steal it and do a post about it, too. Anyway, what follows is merely my opinion, so take it or leave it at your will.
There are several ways I'd handle slowing something down (or speeding something up) in text. The main one is sentence length, punctuation, that sort of thing. The length of sentences really makes a difference in how fast your reader is reading. A period is a pause. So, a short sentence has a pause before and after, and slows do the reader. A comma is a pause, but a shorter one. So a long complex sentence with lots of clauses will make a reader read a little faster to get to the end of the sentence, which is often the point of the sentence.
But these things can do the opposite, too. A BUNCH of short sentences in a row will cause your reader to get used to the choppy pace and so she'll speed her reading back up. A bunch of long sentences in a row will slow your reader down, because a bunch of long complex sentences get tangled up and confusing after a while. Another thing to keep in mind is that, as with cinema, you have to know the rules first. It's especially important to know grammar and punctuation rules (imo) to use them to your advantage when pacing a sentence or paragraph (because you CAN do things like leave out commas where there should be commas, or add them where there shouldn't be. But it can throw many a reader out unless done in an intelligent way. imo)
There are many other things to work with as far as pacing.
(For instance, a paragraph with only one simple sentence in it gives that sentence a lot of weight, and time.) Another is repetition, especially repetition through parallelism, repetition that can list numerous things, repetition that can seem to go on and on and on, repetition that can pack a really hard punch depending on how it's used. All that (sentence length, paragraph length, repetition, etc) are really just learning to play with sentence structure and story structure, and all the tricks and tools and knowledge that go with those things is stuff I don't really know as much about as some people. Which is why I'd like to do a post on it now!
But anyway, I do think that such things come easier with writing experience (as all things in writing do).
(Btw, if you want to send me your piece or your passage to give you specifics on how I'd deal with the pacing, I'd love to). And it's funny how different images and text can be and yet how much the same they are in other respects.
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Last weekend I discovered Johnny Cash. Because, believe me, C & W isn't something I would normally listen to. But I do like folk music, some of it, anyway - I like the intensity, the laconicness (if that's a word), and the way sometimes a highly conventional form can express...something that sounds like truth. It's almost as if the meaning slips past the convention because it is too urgent to be denied. Ok, so Cash has this quality, and again, timing plays a part in this:
"Well if they freed me from this prison, if that railroad train was mine
I bet I'd move it on a little further down the line:
(beat) Far from Folsom prison - that's where I want to stay,"
That beat, that space, or hesitation, speaks volumes. And in the whole thing, the ironical, rueful, self-awareness of the lyrics clashes with the extreme simplicity/conventionality of the music, so it gets under your skin. Well, under mine. So I was trying to work out why this music was getting to me, and I think if I ever wrote a sentence with half as much economy and power as the above, I would think I'd really done something.
Stylistically, I admire terseness - I admire the skill that it takes. Do you know Tesla's writing? I really like that. I myself tend to be too...uneconomical. Too many words, much too many adjectives - as if I was throwing money at a problem. 'Just throw words at your story, that'll fix it!" Then I remind myself I'm supposedly doing this for fun so I'll do as I please.
I think style inspiration can be anything: a concept - dodyskin wrote a lovely Inuit fairytale about Angel - a picture, a film, some kind of noir or something. Stoney wrote a sort of snapshot of Drusilla and it was so very visual and cinematic I'm sure it was based on something she'd seen. I'll let you if johnny Cash inspires me, shall I? Not that it's likely. : )
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Anyway, yeah, I really really like some folk music and this:
the way sometimes a highly conventional form can express...something that sounds like truth.
And in the whole thing, the ironical, rueful, self-awareness of the lyrics clashes with the extreme simplicity/conventionality of the music, so it gets under your skin.
--rings so true for me. It's why Dylan and Neil Young are great (imo), and that idea of conventionality being a vehicle for something more true is why I love the early Beatles so damn much (I love them later too, but they got more complex over time, which is another kettle of fish.)
Do you know Tesla's writing?
I've only read the S Curve, which I have yet to fb her for. I am so bad! I admire
I myself tend to be too...uneconomical. Too many words, much too many adjectives - as if I was throwing money at a problem.
I tend to be verbose as well (stating the obvious here, look at these comments!!!). One thing I've tried to do is give myself word limits, line limits, or page limits. I find that this has really helped me to find THE one way I want to say things, instead of writing around the one thing in so many circles I get tired (and hope, somehow, that the reader will stumble on into the middle of the spiral).
But also, I do believe our own verbosity can be our strength, too. I've noticed that some writers I admire for writing tersely and all Hemingwayish have difficulty writing all convolutey and twisty and Henry Jamesish. And both were great writers, imo. Although I've been trying to learn to write succinctly and with brevity as well, I've also been trying to hone my extreme talkiness into a strength. I usually do it by reading extremely long books!
But I should note--that, that's fun for me. I do agree that fanfic is and should be for fun. It makes me sad when people freak out over it--myself included!
Stoney wrote a sort of snapshot of Drusilla
Are you referring to her Crusilla piece? That was some damn fine writing.
I'll let you if johnny Cash inspires me, shall I? Not that it's likely. : )
Hee! I like the idea of Johnny Cash inspiring you. And dicussing things with you is so interesting!
damn, I'm in danger of collapsing your thread, Sorry-o.
Re: damn, I'm in danger of collapsing your thread, Sorry-o.
I am Bisi, see me spam
1) Writing rituals. So, maybe, some people need to have blue lined paper and a pencil, some people need absolute silence, some people need to be in a pub, some people need to have their keyboard at a particular angle and use a particular font. Starting writing is so hard. Can there be a way in which doing research becomes one of those rituals, like lining up three different colour pens? Can it be a way of procrastinating? Is it a way of assuring yourself you're doing something useful while waiting for inspiration to strike? Or is it the way you get inspiration to strike? I don't mean you as in tkp, I mean that I suppose the uses of research are different for everybody: as a useful tool, as a distraction, as insurance, as part of the pleasure of writing.
I think we come to fiction in order to get our disbelief suspended, and it's a juggling act, fic in particular having a tendency to be preposterous and convincing at the same time. It all comes under what we mean by storytelling, I suppose. I wasn't going to get into this, but in my opinion, it has a lot to do with emotional honesty in a writer. Some writers can take you to the strangest places...Inca, for instance, could write about flying pigs with hats on and make it enthralling...it's a pleasure to see her imagination unfolding. On the other hand, there is a writer whose work is really well-crafted, imaginative, exciting etc, and i can't get into it because somewhere at the heart of it is a really punitive attitude towards pleasure and desire. It's not that that attitude is there, so much as that it is hidden, that bothers me: probably I'd be ok if it was overt. I can get into sadism as much as the next person...
I've drifted away from the subject again. I guess my point is that you can forgive, or not even notice, questionable details if the story has enough internal conviction to carry you along. But it's part of the contract of respect between writer and reader to be accurate, to have done the work, looked things up, not to been cavalier about it. It's one of the signs the reader has that the writer is doing their best with this story, it sort of...makes the reader trust the writer more, be more open to what the writer wants to do with them (the writer, of course, wants to have their wicked way with as many readers as possible). So I think I'm coming down on the side of research as a technique of persuasion, one of the many a writer has at their disposal.
Re: I am Bisi, see me spam
God yes. I do posts like this just so people will talk to me! ... Else, what's the point in saying it? I already know what I think.
It's funny you bring this up, this research as a ritual or what you need to do to get situated for a fic, because this is one of the writing posts I was talking about that I was going to do. A lot of times people ask writers (or just ask in general) what do you need in order to write? And for me, I don't need anything specifically physical; I prefer a computer but I can do it by hand and anywhere is fine and I don't need my three pens or what have you.
Anyway, I think you're right, it's different for everybody, but I use research as a form of mental preparation. It's one of the things I need to have at my finger tips to write a story, just as I need to know the format and style (and style requires research of its own, as we've discussed.)
Speaking of mental space necessary to write/create, you might find this interesting. It's not quite the same thing; it's about the spaces you write in--your head, then you sort of storyboard space, then the writing itself that ends up in the final product, then the writing you do that gets cut out or that you write to get into the place you need to create the final product. It's just...one of the coolest essays I've ever read about the seed of the story in your head --> a story someone else reads and gets.
somewhere at the heart of it is a really punitive attitude towards pleasure and desire. It's not that that attitude is there, so much as that it is hidden, that bothers me: probably I'd be ok if it was overt. I can get into sadism as much as the next person.
Ha, I like the way you put that. And yes, I find it troublesome when I feel like an author is doing something and she doesn't know she's doing it. Although it depends on the degree for me. I've read some excellently crafted stories that seemed to have underlying assumptions/attitudes that the author didn't acknowledge or seem aware of, and been okay with it, either because a) I agreed with the author, or b) it was deeply hidden enough not to distract me.
But it's part of the contract of respect between writer and reader to be accurate, [...] it sort of...makes the reader trust the writer more, be more open to what the writer wants to do with them [...] So I think I'm coming down on the side of research as a technique of persuasion.
I agree completely. I actually started getting into this above with
Also, this is not spam. Your comments are fascinating and insightful.
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But I do practice what you call "style research" (again, I'm talking about writing in a more general way, not just fanfic, because I am a student taking English and French lit classes that make me write at least 3 pages a week). When I read, I underline whether I am reading for school or pleasure. I underline phrases, sentences, etc. that I love, that I want to go back to. Then, when I have to write a story and I don't know what to do I pick up a random book off my shelf and I flip through, reading everything I have underlined. Then I'll take one or two phrases and mimic them in style or idea or vocabulary etc. It's a great way to get started or the work my way to a middle point.
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I underline lines I like too. The trouble is, if I'm not reading it for school, I forget to carry a pen around. If I am reading it for school, I underline other parts not for the style of the writing but for something to discuss in class or to use in an eassy...so when I go back to those books I never know which bits are the good writing bits and which bits are the school bits and I have to read so much to figure out which is which there ends up not being much point!
But oh yeah, do I ever just sometimes look and lust over certain lines. A time or two I've just copied a line out of a book and had it at the top of my screen, rereading it and modeling sentences after it until I finally get something of my own going.
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When I set out to write something I almost always reasearch more or less extensively (online, in libraries, talking with friends, asking my flist) before and during the writing process. I find that really adds to the story, as you mentioned I find that even if I don't use most of what I've learned it's still there in the background. For instance when I wrote 'Break,', my B/A angstathon, I spent the best part of a day reading about katanas, samurai swords and how they were made and regarded by the people who used them. In the end I hardly used any of the knowledge I'd aquired but I think it fed into the feel of the story. My research for 'Six Minutes...' took me to some fairly disturbing places, it's suprising how difficult it is finding out how long it takes to effectively strangle someone, and how long it takes for brain death to set in ::shudders:: Another time I asked a list I was on to explain Homecoming to me (we don't have it in the UK,) one guy told me this whole story about a cow being eleced homecoming queen one year. I shamelessly stole that story and had Faith relate it to Buffy, complete with gross football team inuendos. I've done loads of research for fics I've yet to write, learned way more than I ever wanted to about the US prison system, Southie, and about remote Chinese provinces inhabited mainly by yaks.
I find the pop culture one of the hardest things to get right, so I avoid the refrences as much as I can, even though I feel this is a weakness in my writing. When I sit down to write an American character it strikes me each time that although we share a lot or reference points, there are many background things that you take for granted growing up and living in a particular society, but which are mysterious when viewed from the outside. I really should write Giles, Wesley or Spike to see if it's easier, but I just haven't felt inspired to do it yet.
However, the best thing about doing fic research is being able sit down for a few happy hours with some favourite eps and feel all justified and hardworking because what you're doing is 'research' *g*
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I'm glad you think so.
'Break,', my B/A angstathon,
Have I ever given you fb for that? I loved it. And I could feel the research you did on the sword.
My research for 'Six Minutes...' took me to some fairly disturbing places, it's suprising how difficult it is finding out how long it takes to effectively strangle someone, and how long it takes for brain death to set in
The research I had to do for my teleplay for that class was most morbid. I ended up disabling images on my internet settings whenever I researched it.
Another time I asked a list I was on to explain Homecoming to me (we don't have it in the UK,) one guy told me this whole story about a cow being eleced homecoming queen one year. I shamelessly stole that story
I do stuff like that ALL. THE. TIME. Sometimes I fear my shameless stealing will go to far. I already wrote an original story about someone that I regret having done, even though it's not like it'll get published or anything. Er...I mean, stealing a story about a cow is fun and cool, but sometimes I do that on a more personal level and wonder if people I know and love will be hurt by it. Which is an utter tangent from what you were talking about, sorry.
there are many background things that you take for granted growing up and living in a particular society,
So true. I've spent a little (very peripheral) time in the HP fandom and it was the same with me...er, only the opposite. But while I do know stuff like Homecoming, I still find pop culture references difficult. Sometimes writing characters like Buffy makes me wish I watched more tv and listened to more pop music.
However, the best thing about doing fic research is being able sit down for a few happy hours with some favourite eps and feel all justified and hardworking because what you're doing is 'research'
Ahahahah! I've done that a couple times, but I quickly stopped . . . I find I'm afraid to rewatch BtVS/AtS too much. In the past, I've moved from fandom to fandom pretty quickly...every 6 months or so. It's not that I stop loving the source material, I just get tired of it. I often return years later. But I don't want that to happen with Jossverse, I want to clutch it to my bosom forever and ever! So I've been holding off on rewatching much, fearing I'll get tired of it ... and that some day the eps won't feel so shiny as they do right now.
I am a sad sad lady!
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And I do what you call style research all the time, for almost everything I write. I have files of quotes from TV shows, movies, books, comic books, blogs, friends, etc., that I keep for inspiration. Not because I'm going to plagiarize them, but to help remind me what good writing looks like. I particularly do this with jokes, because I find it very difficult to write jokes on command. I have a whole file of humorous things that various people have said/written that I look over when I need to bring the funny. Sometimes I'll go so far as to adapt a joke I've seen somewhere else to my purposes, or maybe turn it around on itself to try and get fresh mileage out of it.
And whenever I start working on a new piece of writing the first thing I do is think about the tone I want it to have and then seek out other writings that have similar tones to help me get there. If it's a TV show fic I'm writing I usually try to read scripts, because I want to pay particular attention to what works on the page as opposed to what plays well on screen. Actual scripts if I can find them, not transcripts, because you can get a lot of insight into style from the stage directions, as well as some character/story details that don't show up on screen. But since I'm usually writing narrative fiction rather than spec scripts these days, I also look to other sources of fiction for tone.
My Angel fic, "Curses," for example, was modeled on Terry Pratchett's style, because I was looking for something wry and funny that moves along at a nice clip. Don't think I really got there, but it helped to read a few pages of one of the Discworld books whenever I was feeling stumped. It always gave me the inspiration I needed.
Right now I'm working on my first "Firefly" fic, so I've been reading the screenplays for some modern westerns, trying to get a sense for what makes those great hero moments that the show employs so well. I'm also researching colloquialisms from various cultures to try and interject some rustic flavor into my dialogue.
What's that old agage? Good writers borrow from others; great writers steal from them outright.
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I find this really interesting because recently I started doing the same thing. I had an idea for a humorous fic, but I didn't feel comfortable writing it because I don't think of myself as funny. So I started doing research online . . . what was interesting about it was how HARD it was to find anything that actually made me LAUGH.
Sometimes people on lj do posts that make me laugh, but partly it's because everything is more funny when it's personal--you're less likely to laugh at the tv than a live comedian, you're less likely to laugh at the tv alone than with people around you who are also laughing. On lj when I know a person and am intimately acquainted with what they're talking about, stuff they say can be really funny . . . but it's not quite stuff I can adapt into a fic.
I'd love to do a post on this, to see how people construct funny, but I think a lot of the people who write humor are naturally humorous and probably don't know the way they manage it.
it helped to read a few pages of one of the Discworld books whenever I was feeling stumped. It always gave me the inspiration I needed.
This is exactly how I use style research. It helps to get my words flowing.
What's that old agage? Good writers borrow from others; great writers steal from them outright.
Bahaha! That's excellent.
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But yeah, I do understand the 'finish as quick as possible so I can go back to real writing' mentality. I feel that way lots of the time!
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While I'm always interested in analyzing how other writers do what they do, about the only time I do style research is if I want to write something in a particular style--i.e. I have an idea for a Damon Runyon pastiche, so I would want to re-read some Runyon before tackling that. But usually style isn't one of my main concerns.
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Ha! Cool! That sounds like an interesting essay. And also sounds rather difficult to research.
Like I think I had Buffy shopping at an Albertson's once, only to later discover that the chain doesn't extent to California.
Yeah, I had this problem with my set in NYC fic. I wouldn't think it'd be that different, but certain things like grocery stores and drug stores aren't nation wide.
the only time I do style research is if I want to write something in a particular style
Understandable. If you use your own natural style, it can eventually fade into the background so that you plot and characters can take center stage, which is what you want.
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Canonical research: For AtS No Limits, I did a lot of straight-up, canonical research for Spike and Gunn, two characters that I’d never even thought about beginning to write before. I went to Vrya’s database and to Buffyworld to try and get a sense of their patterns of speech, because they both speak in very distinct ways that’s easily recognizable but not (for me) easily reproduced. Incidentally, the thing that surprised me the most is that I’d forgotten how funny they both are. Not just sarcastic or played for laughs, although they both are that sometimes, but genuinely, sincerely funny. Anyways. So transcripts and dialogue and major plot points and reactions for the foundation bits. After I wrote the scenes with them in it, I then went to Mer and asked her to crosscheck the Spike I’d written with the Spike she’d write. This probably falls into the post-write section and the not the pre-write section that research usually falls under it felt like research because I learned a lot about Spike that hadn’t occurred to me before.
I don’t usually do a lot of canonical research in the strict sense for pieces that I write of my own musings and volition (as opposed to a structure laid out by someone else like No Limits), but that’s because I usually write about Connor if I can help it and I don’t need to research him in the strictest sense. Part of that is because he’s pretty minor in the screentime sense. He actually didn’t have all that much dialogue and whatever dialogue he had or whatever scenes he was in, I’ve…um, already memorized them. Everyone needs a hobby.
But I do do (heh) what I might term canonical-style research, which is to say that we’re fortunate to be working with characters who’ve had a myriad of iterations under their belts. They’re, how do you say, fleshed out. Well-rounded. Layered. And because of that, I always ask myself which version of a character I’m trying to get across. A cornered Angel is a very different Angel from a reactive Angel is a very different Angel from a contrite Angel. In 30,000 feet terms, Connor just back from Quor-toth is a different version of himself (in very intentional, calculated ways) than s4 Connor is than Oringin-Connor is. I like details. I like the way the actors hold themselves in anger or relief and the slight difference in a genuine smile versus a sardonic one. So (on occasion), I’ll refresh my memory of how exactly a character acts when he’s been pushed too far, or when he overjoyed. I’ll rewatch those scenes and look for visual clues and add them to my story or extrapolate based on what I see on the screen. The idea here is that a certain style of story blends well with certain versions of a character and not as well with another and I want to use the character to bolster/support/add to the style of the story.
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Style: I do do (heh) the inspiration bit and I think that the emulation comes in at least some degree. I usually stick to fanfic, though, for inspiration, although I’ve been unexpectedly inspired by profic as well, The Adventures of Kavalier and Clay being a good example of how I started wanting to write longer stories sustaining metaphorical and allegorical components through the story, with less attention to minute details and more attention to details of story structure. There are fanfic writers I read when I want to analyze lyricism or imagery and other fanfic writers I read when I want to analyze complex stories told in a straightforward style, and other fanfic writers I read when I want to analyze porn. I think that over the years, I’ve picked up a lot of things from other fanfic writers and in a way, that’s research to. It’s just more applicable across the spectrum than to one specific story.
Whew.
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For BtVS fics that I write, I tend to set them in canon which I know backwards and forwards. I don't have to do a lot of canon checks because the info tends to be in my head. But I've done things like watch an episode to see if a character was wearing a coat and if he was wearing shoes or boots, that type of thing.
I'll also re-watch episodes because it helps me absorb their speech patterns. Reading transcripts is definitely something I do as well because seeing how the dialogue works written down is useful too.
If I do the BtVS/Anne of Green Gables crossover, there'd be a lot of research involved. I'd probably re-read the AofGG, Avonlea, and the Island (because I'd set it sometime around the latter 2 books). I'd also utilize L.M. Montgomery's journals to further capture the atmosphere, language and customs. There'd be obsessive checking of word usage accuracy and appropriateness of certain actions. My Canadian history books would likely be useful (yay! Keeping them for years will finally serve a purpose!).
Fortunately I've been to PEI and have spent a significant amount of time in the settings that inspired L.M. Montgomery so the landscape and setting won't be too much of a problem. hee! I've actually traveled to the place, spent extensive time (not 6 months though) and taken notes (I have a whole journal from my most recent visit).
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Ahahahaha! I know that feeling! I've written some ALIAS fanfic, so I was doing a lot of CIA and terrorist research, and there was this eerie feeling of . . . being watched!
which meant that we actually figured out a lot of the plot twists that have since happened on the show.
Wow, that's cools. Sounds like y'all did some good work!
If I do the BtVS/Anne of Green Gables crossover, there'd be a lot of research involved.
I hope this means you're thinking about it!
Fortunately I've been to PEI
Fortunate indeed! I'd love to go there!
Also, sorry for the delay in this reply. I'm all backed up! (again!)
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To this day, Angel can work Spike up into a frenzy by calling him "Lacey."
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The thing is, back in the day, I thought corsets were worn by both men and women. When I asked the question before, people said they thought it was only extremely foppish men, but do they mean foppish as in girlish, or foppish as in very concerned with appearance? Angelus was surely very concerned with appearance. No one seemed clear on exactly how common it would've been for a man to wear a corset.
But I'll take this!
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This seems like a really good way to absorb the flavor, without having the little details sound as if they were inserted in because "Hey look! I researched this!" I'm not sure I'd be able to research in this way (I do tend to look at it as a kind of research, even if you're not explicitly doing it only for the story you want to write) because I am so bad at absorbing details. Even if I wasn't concerned with getting every single little thing right, there would be such gross errors that the feeling of the time period or setting or what have you would be lost. But it seems like if I was a little better at absorbing that kind of things this would be, as you say, a way of creating the correct tone for a setting or what have you without the overdose on research problem.
Thanks for your thoughts and I'm sorry this reply took so long.
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From there I moved to Lord of the Rings, which required a different, more fandom based research and then to Angel, which required me to learn some *very* odd things.
Finally, there was Stargate, and a story I wrote called "Harceisis". THe story itself is terrible (I was fairly new to writing at the time), but the research is a work of art. Basically, when writing for CSI you could whatever you wanted, it just had to be solvable. In Angel, you could do whatever you wanted but you had to explain in with some sort of demon or spell. Stargate takes it one step further: you can do whatever you want, but you have to tie it into Earth's history. "Harceisis" was great because it follows what I am doing in school, and sometimes the real world and the fictional one overlap in some lovely places.
After Harceisis, I have written only one big story, and it as more medically and less historically based. Again, it was back to research, and I asked nurses and doctors and the internet a bunch of questions.
I suppose then that I do all three types of research (my style is mostly adapted from authors that I like and I often write short fics to get into a chracter's head). I always find it hilarious when I ask something like "If you're allergic to penicillin and you need penicillin, what do you take?" and then have to explain that it's for a story and people look at you funny.
For me, the hunt is at least as good as the catch. I love it when history or the real world fits into the world I am trying to build.
Excellent entry, by the way. I am here via
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If an alligator bled all over a zoo exhibit, is there any way you'd be able to find a human blood sample
Hahahaha! Now that's one I'd like to read.
Angel, which required me to learn some *very* odd things.
Oh, don't I know it. I now know all about the chemicals released when small rodent animals feel "fear", and I also know Hal Jordan's (the second Green Lantern's) dying words. *cough*
Stargate takes it one step further: you can do whatever you want, but you have to tie it into Earth's history. "Harceisis" was great because it follows what I am doing in school, and sometimes the real world and the fictional one overlap in some lovely places.
Oh, how interesting! I love it when the research I'm doing connects to something I'm doing in school. Ok, back when I was in school, that is. But still. It's fun when you can bring real knowledge and real experience into writing.
and then have to explain that it's for a story and people look at you funny.
Ha! This happens to me a lot. Though I try not to tell people it's for a story, especially if the question is so odd that it will lead to the question, "What's the story about?" Because "dead gay men getting it on" is just so difficult to explain to those who don't get it.
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Oh my goodness yes yes yes. Research in some ways is as much a part of the process of fic-writing as imagining, as typing. I do so many kinds. Style research, definitely, because all my fandoms are book-based, and it's important to me to engage with the original author's style in some way even if I'm not emulating it outright (or writing in a style very counter to it for comic effect). And there's a different kind of style research I do that goes with the genre of my story: historical, horror, romance, farce, PWP...each one needs a different kind of atmosphere. So I may "inspire myself" with a little Lovecraft, a little Shakespeare, etc., as appropriate.
But the factual research is the big one, and I find I like the way it prolongs the writing process. If I'm really enjoying a story idea, I have a slightly masturbatory (I guess) desire to stay in its world for far longer than it would actually take me to write the thing. So I research and research and research some more, and use a need for factual details as an excuse. Not that the need for factual details isn't there, and isn't sometimes terrifyingly urgent --says the woman who once, in the course of writing a long Good Omens historical fic, woke up her boyfriend tearing apart her bookshelves at 3 AM with a desperate, certain knowledge I wouldn't be able to think of sleep until I knew what color John Dee's eyes were. (Brown)
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I'm late to replying to everyone, and anyway, stragglers are always welcome! At any rate, I'm sure you always arrive exactly when you mean to.
it's important to me to engage with the original author's style in some way even if I'm not emulating it outright
Exactly. I haven't done book based fanfic in a while, but I wrote my very first one when I was in the third grade. I started it and was displeased with it and wrote myself a very long note about how it should not only be like the characters in the book but SOUND like the book itself, and then I proceeded to take style notes on how dialogue was handled etc.
I have a slightly masturbatory (I guess) desire to stay in its world for far longer than it would actually take me to write the thing.
Ha! I never thought about fact research in that way. Perhaps that's partly because fact research so often takes me so far OUTSIDE my story. A historical fic or a fic in an unfamiliar setting will lead me to lots and lots of research within the realm of my idea, but there are so many random things that take me outside of it; to write a story about a vampire in L.A. I end up having to research Barry Manilow, '60s military slang, and Child Protective Services.
says the woman who once, in the course of writing a long Good Omens historical fic, woke up her boyfriend tearing apart her bookshelves at 3 AM with a desperate, certain knowledge I wouldn't be able to think of sleep until I knew what color John Dee's eyes were. (Brown)
Ahahaha. I know that feeling!
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But I know I'll never write a historical fiction because I just couldn't do it. I'd be willing to go to the places (like Scotland for HP) to see what it's like, but I'm no good at writing anything remotely historical.
I have a random question- I've always wondered whether Americans should use British slang if the TV show/book/movie is set in Britain. Should I have Harry (for example) say thinks like "biscuit" instead of "cookie"? Would it be weird to do that without using the British spelling of words (like "colourful")?
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When dealing with dialogue, characters speaking American when they are British is out of character. Harry would never say, "trunk of the car". He would say "boot of the car". If a British character met a character from America, the U.S. character would talk American.
With the narrator, I find the reason people expect Britishisms a little more fuzzy, but I generally conclude 1) you'll want to be consistent, and 2) narration is usually from a character's POV, however remote, so it should still have the right "voice" as it were.
Insofar as spelling--people are less demanding on that count. I don't change my spellings because they have nothing to do with what the characters would say, though I suppose if I had a character writing something, and then transcribed what they wrote (as JKR often did in HP) that would be a problem.
You can get something called a Britpick, which is a check someone, usually British, does to make sure all your slang and usages are correct. There are many people in HP fandom who will do this for you if you ask very nicely, but I've never had it done myself.
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