lettered | La Vie De TKP: Life Serial Snippets

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La Vie De TKP: Life Serial Snippets

So, my BFF and I started Buffy tonight, and that very first scene in WTTH she yelled out, "Watch out! He's a vaaaampiiiiire!!!!" And then when the credits rolled she was all, "OMG it was her!" Still got to be the best opening ever.

So, the Tiffster giggled in appropriate places, and seemed intent on watching more. She wanted to know if Amy's mom came back. Tonight was of the good.

Except for that whole interval where we watched Match Point (tonight was veg night). I've never seen a Woody Allen movie. Are they all that bad? Also, intermidable? Completely butchered Dostoevsky, too.

So did everyone but me notice Buffy's dress in Xander's dream in "Teacher's Pet" looks a lot like the red dress Buffy mates with Xander in in "When She Was Bad"? It's like Xander's dream dress. He's never see such a fine chest. He means dress. Because apparently, Buffy's boobs went the way of Flutie. I mean, not that they got eaten--never mind.

Ever try to feed a duck chicken? Come on, you know you want to.

Hahahaha so

imnotacommittee pointed out today was Star Wars day. You know, May the Fourth be with . . . hahahahaha. Still laughing.

That AoQ guy didn't like "Hush." There's no hope for this guy. His life must be drab and small. And smell vaguely of cat litter.

Hey, did you ever wish there was a way to just bleep out people's icons?

I find "The Wish" harder and harder to watch every time. Which is weird because usually I get over anything once I see/hear/feel it enough. It's seeing Buffy like that. It's seeing Buffy like that contrasted with S3 Buffy, all bright and sunshiney and good like a big hug, and then thinking about later seasons Buffy . . . and seeing so much less o' the contrast.

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Yay for converting friends to BtVS! Heee, you can tell her that Amy's mom *kind of* shows up when Oz points out that the statue's eyes seem to move. O_o

It's so intereting and kind of heart-breaking to watch Buffy in the different seasons. Going through s1 for

episodic_buffy, I keep saying aloud "Awww, she's so young! She's so cute and round-cheeked!" And yes, curvy Buffy, sadly, was pretty much s1 only, though SMG did seem to get even skinnier as the series went on.

I did tell her about the statue. And she laughed at that, but I feel like I shouldn't've said because now that part is spoiled for her.

Even though she's never that curvy again, she still had *some* in 2 and 3, and even got some back (I thought) in 5. It's 6 and 7 that really make me cringe. She looks skeletal. But yeah, one of the things that really surprised me about BtVS was just how endearing Buffy herself was. S1, except for "Prophecy Girl," was the quality of plots I'd expected out of the show (though the dialogue was much more intelligent than I'd've ever guessed),--that is, many of them are ridiculous. But it's really Buffy that makes me adore that season; she's not only quippy and kind and loyal and kick-ass, she's so adorable to look at.

I have heard that the producers of Scooby Doo demanded that she lose ten pounds to play Daphne, which is why she looks so dreadful in S6. Dear God, she didn't have ten pounds to lose.

Re: Woody Allen - the only movie I've enjoyed by him is Annie Hall (the one with Diane Keaton.) I've enjoyed a few others, but after the musical "Everyone Says I Love You" (in which I was forced to watch Drew Barrymore sing, and I kinda heart Drew and that was just wrong) I gave up on him.

Because apparently, Buffy's boobs went the way of Flutie. I mean, not that they got eaten--never mind. Heee!

Yay for your friend - esp on the Darla reveal. As much as I love watching Buffy for any reason, nothing beats watching it with someone who's never seen it and getting to sit there with your heart in your mom thinking, "Darla's the vampire! The guy Willow's with is a vampire! Xander's gonna grab Buffy's ass as they climb out of the sewers, wait for it...there! Giles is going to sputter all English like and Buffy's going to say, 'Can you vague that up for me?' ANGEL'S A VAMPIRE!! With a rockin' tattoo."

Best ever. My friend that I just recently intro'd to Buffy told me that it has taken over her life and that they watch 2 eps every night. Squee! I ran into her yesterday with a bunch of student (adult students) and she said, "Here's the reason I'm so sleepy - Suzanne has me addicted to Buffy! Have you guys seen Buffy?" And they all stared at us like she'd said, "Siamese kitten porn." She went on and on about how smart the show was, which reminded me of this pre-musical conversation I had with her gf, Jen:

Sue: See, it's all about metaphor. High school as hell, relationships ripped apart by supernatural reasons and not STD ones...yada, yayda, yada, metaphor.
Jen: But do they get the metaphor?
Sue: Does who get the metaphor?
Jen: The fans - the people that watch Buffy.
Sue: (frowning) Well, considering most of the ones I know have BAs or MAs in the literary arts...um, yeah?
Jen: Oh. I thought they were kids.

Heh.

I could see feeding a duck some of those chicken-in-a-biscuit crackers, but, you know, adding foie gras would just be wrong...

ETA: Hahahahaha! Heart in your mouth, not in your Mom. Jeez.

Woody Allen isn't in Match Point; he just wrote and directed it. I have an Annie Hall hat though, or so I'm told; I've been meaning to see it forever. Drew's cute. I can't imagine her singing.

My friend's actually seen a lot of BtVS, but she didn't watch it faithfully and doesn't understand why I'm so obsessed with it. It's kinda funny because she knows spotty stuff--first time she saw Harmony she was like "OMG she's a vampire!" But anyway, I love watching with someone who doesn't know every line or what exactly's going to happen next, because it's as close as I can get to seeing it again for the first time.

I'm so glad you got your friend addicted! It's funny because you in your conversation sound exactly like my ex-roomie, who's the one who got me hooked. She kept saying it's a metaphor! It's a metaphor! And I was like yeah, but sounds like a lame metaphor. But anyway, I, like Jen, thought that the audience were mostly pre-teens and teens who had nothing better to do with their lives. Then at my university, where everyone was a snob and only watched "profound" stuff, there was an argument where half the class was like no! Buffy is intelligent and deep and real life! And the other half (which, ahem, included me) were like, Siamese kitten porn? But anyway, yeah, it's amazing the amount of...I don't know, stereotype there was in me against Buffy, and I bet it's that way for a lot of people. Sometimes I think BtVS was an unfortunate name, even if it is clever.

Have you ever had those crackers? They look gross. I've only never tried to feed a duck duck because duck is so expensive. So I throw chicken at them.

Man, watching the pilot of Buffy still gets me every time!

Hey, did you ever wish there was a way to just bleep out people's icons?

Heee, YES!

Lotsa pilots for shows I've liked have sucked, but Whedon can turn 'em out.

There this one icon on my flist that I just wish I didn't have to see every day.

It's seeing Buffy like that. It's seeing Buffy like that contrasted with S3 Buffy, all bright and sunshiney and good like a big hug, and then thinking about later seasons Buffy . . . and seeing so much less o' the contrast.

You know I hadn't ever thought about this. I mean sure I've seen The Wish (many times because honestly it's one of my favorite AU timelines) but for some reason I never noticed how very much late seasons Buffy is like The Wish Buffy. Eventually I guess that life wears on you.

Poor Buffy

One thing that I think is interesting is how different Wishverse Buffy is from Faith. Faith is obviously a reflection of Buffy, what she could be if she let go. Faith accuses Buffy of being exactly the same as her, and that what's holding Buffy back is weakness. It's obvious that's not so, but I think Wishverse Buffy and S6 Buffy make it even more clear that Buffy's sense of right and justice and good are something absolutely fundamental to her; she's not trembling on the brink of immorality, like Faith; her darkness is something completely different. Her darkness is a devotion to duty and good so stringent that she won't accept help, hates herself when she fails, and takes it out on herself. That is, Buffy's darkness is an inward spiral that destroys herself; Faith's is an outward one that destroys others. What gets me is how much of that is THERE is wishverse Buffy; even as they're pushing us toward paralleling Faith and Buffy more and more, they're showing us their fundamental differences, and creating something that's echoed much less clearly in S6.

One of the big differences is that Faith was second. And in addition to all that inferiority, it's also part of why it's easier for her to be irresponsible. Because a part of her knows that no matter how much she messes up, Buffy will do things right. So she can let herself fail.

And Buffy never had that - Buffy knows that she's got to do things right and can't let herself fail. Even with Kendra around and later Faith, Buffy still knows she has to take her duty dead serious.

What the Wishverse/S7 and S6 showed me, was that a Buffy who tried to live like Kendra (all duty) or Faith (lots of wildness) was going to not be a happy/fulfilled person.

BTW - It's kind of a neat thing that Faith really proves that she's going to grow up and do things right in AtS-4 when Wesley tells her that Angel is gone and Buffy's not coming - without them as a security blanket Faith steps up and acts like she should have in the first place.

That's a good point. And yet, I don't feel like if Faith had been called before Buffy things would be all that different. I feel like it's in the make-up of the person, in Buffy and in Faith. I think Faith needed to fall before she could stand up straight and tall. I think Buffy needed to fall before she'd hunch lower to the ground.

True. I think Faith would have had problems regardless. The difference is... without a Buffy, I think Faith probably just gets herself killed before she ever really hits the bottom that she does. With Buffy around to take care of things, Faith really lets herself go and winds up worse off than ever. But, she also has a positive example to strive for too, and ends up doing better than she probably expected too...

*smooch*

Just because you are so smoochable AND you make me laugh. YAY!

*huggles!*

You have an FF fic I've been saving up to read. I'm behind on fic reading my flist, but I want you to know how much I look forward to reading anything you write!

He didn't like Hush? What kind of bizarre mutant is he?!

violaclaire points out below, he liked it just didn't love it. I don't care; that's insanity. I understand his reasoning on some level (he didn't feel it packed an emotional punch, though it was technically good), but I think it's insane. Yeah, there are lotsa eps that are heftier in the greater scheme of Buffyverse, but the thing about Hush is: the scheme of Buffyverse doesn't matter--or doesn't unless you want it to; you can hate the concept, the characters, everything about Buffy--and still find "Hush" a masterpiece.

Uck.

I've never seen a Woody Allen movie. Are they all that bad? Also, intermidable?
Well, I haven't seen Match Point (and my viewing of other Woody Allen films is limited), but I can safely say that the answer to that is no. Match Point is, from what I've heard, very different from his other work in theme and tone.
Now, if you want a good Woody Allen film, try Play It Again Sam. It came out in 1979, it's 85 minutes long, and it's one of the funniest movies I have ever seen. My dad and I have watched it an absurd number of times, and I dread the day when our old VHS copy will break.

Oh! Thanks! Because I've been wanting to try Woody Allen, and this was miserable. Quite possibly the WORST movie I've ever seen.

You're welcome. :)

Oh! And I just read AoQ's "Hush" review (I hadn't hunted them down before, I think I'll have to read the rest), and I think I figured out why he didn't like it as much we do. Firstly, he didn't pick up on the language vs. communication thing (sorry, my vocabulary isn't working today) that was built up in the first act (and pointed out in Maggie's lecture!). Secondly, the Gentlemen didn't scare him. Sure, he thought what they were doing was freaky ("chilling" I believe was the term he used), but he thought the Gentlemen themselves, or more to the point their grins, were goofy, which IMO, greatly undercuts the emotional impact of the episode. Given those two factors, I can forgive him thinking it wasn't the best episode ever.
...And am I the only one who noticed that Tara wasn't the least bit freaked about losing her voice? I thought that was a nice touch.

Well, he also didn't think it packed an emotional punch. Which I understand. Angel turning evil, Jenny dying, Buffy killing Angel, Faith losing herself, Joyce, Buffy, Tara dying--all of them hit on a deeper gut level than "Hush". But to me that's one layer. Emotional impact can make a lot out of an ep that's unoriginal and poorly written (luckily, the MOST emotional eps are very well done), but for me it's not the sole criteria on which I judge. There's also the "that's fucking awesome" factor (which is an emotional reaction in and of itself but not of the same kind).

Anyway, I didn't get the whole communication thing at first. I got bits and pieces but not the whole metaphor of the dream sequence etc. And though I think I found the Gentlemen more frightening than he did, I still don't think the fear I felt would've substituted for the "emotional impact" he was talking about. And yet I can't help but look at the ep itself and pretty objectively, I think, give it high marks for originality, for excellent writing, for doing something I've never seen done before and doing it better than I ever thought it could be done. So I rate it as one of the best eps ever created. I'm just confused as to how one couldn't.

What is AoQ?

Some dude who was posting Reviews of Episodes on one of the Yahoo Newsgroups as he watched them for the first time. Noteworthy for, in general, having a take on episodes that is pretty interesting to read and divergent from most easily categorized fan archetypes.

dlgood mostly nails it on the head.

Stands (unfortunately in this instance) for Arbiter of Quality and posts reviews for both BtVS and AtS here. His reviews can be intelligent, funny, and unexpected, though for the last two seasons he's been leaving me with a WTF feeling more often than should be comfortable.

But I keep reading, because I keep thinking he's going to fall in love with it. I have this big yen for people falling for Buffyverse. It's like reading angst/romance shipper fic, without being sure of the ending, but desperately hoping character A (random person) and character B (Buffyverse) will end up with each other.

Hey, did you ever wish there was a way to just bleep out people's icons?

Sometimes when I'm at work. I'd hate for my dean to walk in and see some of the more graphic ones. They should make a way for you to rate your icons and then other people could set an allowable rating when looking at their flists.

That's a good idea! Except there should also be ratings not just for explicitness but on how cool an icon is. So if it's lame it's censored. And the censored ones get replaced with space kittens or something. I shouldn't talk though, since I really only ever use one icon. Which is possibly lame, but I am lazy.

Not all Woody Allen movies are bad. I'd definitely try out some earlier ones before making any decisions about him (if you care that much). I'm usually surprised into liking the older ones--everything recent has been crap. To me.

My roomie, the one who got me hooked on Buffyverse, loves Woody Allen. Guess I'll have to give him another try.

But Match Point was really one of the worst movies I've EVER seen.

Oh, how fun to be watching BtVS with someone new to the show. Even better that she's enjoying it! I've had the disappointment of showing BtVS to a friend who didn't get it so I'm pleased you're having such a great experience.

I've never seen a Woody Allen movie. Are they all that bad?
I've enjoyed a lot of his films, but in the later years the quality of his films has declined. I adore Annie Hall, Play it Again Sam, Sleeper, Manhattan Murder Mystery and Bullets Over Broadway. Part of my enjoyment is that I like his bumbly neuroses. There's also some very funny lines.

That AoQ guy didn't like "Hush." Very very weird. Even my old roommate, who tolerated my BtVS obsession, loves and appreciates that episode. That's like this girl I met at a party, who'd just gotten into BtVS, and told me she didn't like Once More with Feeling. I was so thrown and confused, I had no response, and I never don't have something to say especially about BtVS.

That's like this girl I met at a party, who'd just gotten into BtVS, and told me she didn't like Once More with Feeling.

It's kind of rough being that person. Imagine being in a room with a bunch of other BtVS fans and watching BtVS and AtS episodes in a very fannish way. And then OMWF comes on... and that is not an episode I like very much.

So not only am I one of two people out of thirty who doesn't like the episode. I'm only the only one there who isn't singing along to every song.

Oh that must be so hard, especially when you love the show and are watching it with other fans!

I love OMWF a lot, it was actually my conversion episode to BtVS. I'd seen the show before but it was OMWF that got me hooked. That makes it hard for me to imagine the episode not being loved. I'm guessing the dislike is based in not liking musicals or liking musicals, or a general dislike of the later seasons of BtVS?

Well, you know, feeling like such the wet blanket, and that there has to be something wrong with me not to 'get it'...

As to the specific episode - a large part of it is that I just don't care about musicals in general and didn't actually think the songs were very good. Unlike "Hush" it was a gimmick episode that felt gimmicky (which Hush didn't) and it just felt like a chore to watch it.

And then I get contrary and curmudgeonly the more people tell me how brilliant it was when I didn't.... I know lots of people love it, so it probably must be good. I just don't get "it".

I can understand not being into musicals being a factor in not enjoying OMWF. I'm a BIG fan of musicals which definitely contributes to me loving the episode. *g*

And then I get contrary and curmudgeonly the more people tell me how brilliant it was when I didn't....
heeee! I can get that way as well. It can be tiresome if when people are trying to convert you to their way of thinking. One of the things that I like about the BtVS/AtS fandom is that we're all fans of the same shows but there's so many different reactions to the same thing. Moments that I think are funny, others find in bad taste. A scene that I feel meh about, is something someone else considers a definitive character moment. It's very cool.

Like I told

cordelianne, I can understand not being fascinated with OMWF. I love it, think it's awesome. I also like it better than "Hush." But I can understand not liking OMWF, not being unimpressed by "Hush."

Anyway, in a room of Buffy fans, you would not be alone. I do love the ep but I don't know the lyrics. I'm terribly afraid I'll get tired of it, so I try not to rewatch too much.

I've only seen OMWF once.

She's not completely new; she's seen lots of it before, but wasn't ever hooked. But I do think she enjoyed what she saw, and possibly won't think me lame any more for liking it. I mean, not that I care that much, but I want people to love the things I love. I completely understand when they don't, but I still want it, you know?

My room mate who got me started on Buffy really liked Woody Allen, so I thought I'd try one. I guess I should've started with an earlier one!

I can understand not liking BtVS. You have to swallow the concept, and if you can't, no way. I can understand people not liking my favorite characters and favorite eps. They all have their faults. I can understand someone not liking OMWF. It's a musical; some people hate musicals; some people have different taste in music. It's also gimmicky, like

dlgood says below. I adore it myself, but I understand people not liking it.

I don't understand ANYONE not liking Hush. Not thinking it's one of the best hours of tv ever produced.

but I want people to love the things I love. I completely understand when they don't, but I still want it, you know?
I definitely feel the same way! When I get such joy from something I want to share it. I'm actually pretty good at getting my friends hooked on shows I love. I single-handedly got 3 friends and 3 co-workers into Veronica Mars. I tape a lot of shows, so I'll lend friends the tapes to try out the show, and they'll get hooked. It's sort of like dealing drugs, only way less dangerous and it's legal!

I can understand not liking BtVS. You have to swallow the concept, and if you can't, no way.
Absolutely! For a long time I didn't "get it". As I mentioned to

dlgood, OMWF was my conversion episode to BtVS so I'm thrown when people don't like it (although I get the disliking musicals factor). It was the episode that won me over to the show so it's very elevated in my head. Interestingly, it also won over one of my closest friends too.

I *adore* Bullets Over Broadway. John Cusack, Jennifer Tilley, gangsters and jazz-age neuroses. What's not to love?

I know! It's been years since I've seen it and I still recall how excellent a movie it is! I want to run out and rent it NOW. And I'm now wondering why I don't own it. :)

I have to tell my husband about the Star Wars day joke! 'Cause that's his birthday! I can't believe we've never heard that one before...

I haven't seen many Woody Allen movies before, but I remember being dragged along to Hannah and Her Sisters and hating it. I don't remember much about the plot but I think that the reason I hated it was because everyone in the movie ragged on Hannah for being so "good." What's wrong with being good? IIRC, she was nice and kind, and her family all disliked her for it. My memory may be faulty here. At the end of the movie she was kind of downtrodden. Blah.

I couldn't believe I'd never heard it before either.

From what I understand about Woody Allen, people either love him or hate him. Though people've been saying in this thread his early movies are better than his later movies. I'm firmly in the HATE HIM category right now, but I guess I should give him another try.

Oh, yay for getting people addicted to BtVS!

That AoQ guy didn't like "Hush." There's no hope for this guy.

Well, he gave it a "good," he just doesn't love it. I have to admit I'm the same way--objectively, I think it's well-done, but it doesn't grab me emotionally the way other eps do. I'd call it "good" too. Please don't kill me.

Of course I won't kill you. I'll just cease to be your friend and never talk to you again.

No, really, I get what both he and you are saying about "Hush." It doesn't hit the characters the way Innocence or Becoming or The Gift does, so it doesn't hit us that way. And there are a lot of eps I like better than "Hush" from that stand point. But I guess to me that's only one way of rating an episode. There's also an objective stand point, the "is this good?" "is this well written?" "is this original?" questions, and to me Hush basically blows any other ep out of the water in that regard. I guess, I don't know, when I see Hush I tend to get objective, take a step back, and just come up with, "That's bloody brilliant," whether it emotionally tugs my strings like The Body or Lullaby or not.

"Match Point" is an uncharacteristic Woody Allen picture. I like a lot of his, but keep in mind that I'm a Jew and my family is New York Jews so he speaks out language...

Anyhoo - in terms of thos written or directed by, my favorit pictures are

The Purple Rose of Cairo
Bananas
Annie Hall
Crimes and Misdemeanors

But, did you SEE "Match Point"?

Thanks for the list. I've been meaning to see Annie Hall forever; I guess I should!

Yes. I liked Match Point.

Why?

Why not?

Everyone was rotten. Everybody was dishonest, stupid, venal, or miserable. It was funny. The story moved along pretty quickly. I had fun watching it.

And I completely forgot the Dostoyevsky thing until the very end and I didn't really care that I did.

I forgot the Dostoevsky thing til the last 25 minutes or so as well. Perhaps because the entire point of Crime and Punishment was making your own fate (however dismally) and the entire point of Match Point seemed to be luck.

But! I guess we just have different tastes.

the entire point of Crime and Punishment was making your own fate and the entire point of Match Point seemed to be luck.

I can understand how people would react differently. For me, after always seeing so many stories where there is something that is SIGNIFICANT I think it's kind of funny to have one story boil down to assluck, and that was the point... different tastes, like you say.

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La Vie De TKP: Life Serial Snippets

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