Let's talk about defining fics you've written.

[lettered]

DAY TWO OF RANDOM METAPALOOZA.

Do you ever feel like you need to write a fic before you can write a fic?

Of course, you need to write one fic before you can write a sequel. And some people write maybe, five big fics, and almost every other fic they write after that takes place in one of those five universes. I'm talking about those kinds of, let's call 'em "origin" fics ('cause. Well. Other fics originate from them?), but also the great big shipper fic you needed to write to get, say, Spike and Xander together in a way that was believable to you--a fic in which you deal with the "Wait, but I hate vampires!" and "Wait, but I'm not gay!" issues, so that in the fics after that, you can deal with the not-quite-as-immediate issues this couple might have. After that one fic that defines the ship for you, you can write established relationship fics, PWPs, bits of fluff, etc. You don't use the universe of that origin fic so much as you use . . . well, I would call it using that fic's justification. You use the initial fic to justify your 'ship, to justify to yourself how you can write an S/X fluff, even though we all know Xander hates vamps and Spike isn't . . . oh wait, he is. Anyway, you don't tell someone on your S/X fluff fics, "Oh! You have to read my S/X justification fic!", because they are not connected by plot or even by fic-universe. But you use that initial justification fic as a springboard, for yourself.

What I'm calling a "justification" fic might not be about shipping at all. For instance, I initially began "5 Ways NFA Probably Didn't End" as a way to write a happy ending for NFA, after which I (thought I) would feel far more comfortable writing post NFA fics in which no one died, Buffy came to help, and everything was hunky dory. The fic didn't quite turn out that way, but even though at the time it was unconcious, that was partially my intention. I'm interested in this concept. To some extent, as with a fic you write that becomes its own universe in which you can write other fic, it's nudging canon into a place we like, or even that is more comfortable for us, so we can bridge from canon into what we really want to write. But this kind of justification fic, the initial fic isn't a bridge between canon and your other fic--they're not sequels, they don't have to take place in the same universe--it's less physical and more mental than that. That is, whether purposely or not, the initial fic got you into the frame of mind you wanted or needed to be in to justify, and finally produce, those other fics you wanted to write. No one else needs to be privy to that mindframe shift; no one else necessarily sees the connection. But you needed to write that initial fic for you, in order to get into a place to write the fics you wanted to write (again, whether you realized it or not).

Another side of the same die is a fic you've written whose meta concepts are the origins of other things you've written, or fics you've written whose meta concepts have changed the way you think about the characters, such that every fic you write after that is written with that slightly changed view. For instance, writing "Bodliless Within The Bodies" helped me to see that Angel really could bear Buffy's death, and why, and that when Buffy came back to life, she could never ever be All About Angel. This helps me focus in the fics I've written since, gives me to understand what they're really feeling, and makes me be careful about keeping the characters in character. Similar to the way my 5 NFA fic was meant to be, this fic put me into a certain frame of mind for writing future fics (but I didn't do it on purpose. It just happened that I realized something about the characters when I was writing it).

(Another side I'm interested in is the way a meta essay plays into all this. I've written some fics that have allowed me to see the characters in new ways, and then I wrote meta about it. Vice versa, I'm sure it's possible to sit down and write an essay about Angel, and come away with a new way of looking at the character that thereafter, goes into and affects all your fics.)

There are fics (and meta) written by others that can fill these roles for you. You can write a sequel to someone else's fic, or write in their universe--though I *strongly* suggest you get permission or you will probably be hurting and angering someone greatly. But as for the other kinds of fic I mentioned, sure, you can read a fic which slowly brings Buffy and Faith together in a way that's believable, in a way that deals with the issues of teh gay and you slept with my boyfriend and you tried to kill me. And after reading that, you may feel inspired to write 50 pages of B/F smut that you wouldn't have been able to write, had you not read that initial fic. And certainly I've read dozens of fics which've made me think about the characters, see them in new lights, and I consider it an asset to bring those new insights into my own writing.

But right now I'm interested in you, your fics, what you wrote for yourself. What fic you wrote do you feel really started something for you? What did it start? What fics you've written are the center of most of your universes? What fics you've written have allowed you to write a certain ship or pairing? What fics you've written have allowed you to write certain situations? What fics you've written have changed your outlook on a character, and affected your future writing about that character? What fics you've written are defining for you, and how did it come to be defining for you, did you start out with that intention? Is it something that's actually not that great, but spawned other good stuff? Is it (are they) the fics you rec people when they ask what you've written? Are they fair representations of you as a writer? Are they something you just needed to dash off to get to the point where you are? What about meta? Is there fic you've written that's spawned meta, or meta you've written that affected your characterizations?

Comments

[rahirah]

OK, but? I almost always write in one single fic-verse. (I say almost always because I do have a few standalone non-Barbverse drabbles and short stories in BtVS fic, and back when I was writing EQ fic, I had two or three different clubs I wrote for, and all of them were set in the same background universe, due to the nature of EQ fandom, each club had completely different sets of characters and tribal histories.)

So yes, I do have stories that are necessary precursors to other stories I want to write--but I don't think that those stories carry over to other 'verses for me. In my own AU verse, I can write B/S fluff, because I feel that I legitimately got the characters to a place where it would be believable. The thing is, though, the character development I did in my 'verse is totally, totally non-applicable to, say, a story which takes off from canon post-Chosen. If I started such a story, I would feel obligated to take the characters through another set of hoops to get them to a place where I felt I could write fluff and not have it be cheating.

My standalone fics are usually very short, often drabbles, and are generally riffs off a point of canon I think is interesting or arresting, but which doesn't fit into my big 'verse. There are several Barbverse stories that I've written because I have a bee in my bonnet about something. In some senses Necessary Evils is The Story I Needed To Write: it's the heart of my AU verse, it sets out my thoughts about S/B, the Universe, and Everything. Without it, everything else would fall apart. But it's not a justification fic in the sense you mean, because I can't say to myself, "Because I made it work in this 'verse, I can now assume it works in any 'verse."

[tkp.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah. I did mean to get across that an initial story you do, in which 'verse most of the other fics you do take place, is a different thing entirely than one you write that feels as though you're now allowed to write other fics that deal with that ship or that setting. I mean, it seems to me the whole reason you would have a 'verse in which to write fic is that it's far enough from canon that you feel in needs to exist inside an altered space.

[redbrickrose.livejournal.com]

I don't know that I have a justification fic per se. I tend to write different takes on post-NFA and these, by nature, tend to not only not be in the same fic-verse, but to be in mutually exclusive fic-verses. Not all of my fics are post-NFA, but the others are, in my head, equally unconnected to each other.

That said, I do have a definitive fic. "All That's Best of Dark and Bright" was the first non-drabble piece I wrote and it's just . . . what happens next for me. I say it wrote itself, but really I just lived with it in my head for so long that it felt that way. Some fics feel like they have to be forced, that was one that I absolutely had to get out. It woke me up at three am and I had to write it. I don't think I use it to justify other fics, but it ishow I worked out my NFA issues. I don't think I could have made my piece with NFA if I hadn't written it, actually. The A/B/S/F thing (that hopefully will one day be finished)could possibly follow from "All That's Best of Dark and Bright." I mean, in my head it does, but I'm not married to that idea and I probably wouldn't draw explicit connections between them. This is mainly because I like the end of "All That's Best of Dark and Bright" as it stands. It's like the other is something that could potentially happen, but doesn't necessarily happen. Which may tie in with Dark and Bright being definitive for me. It isn't always the first one I tell people about when people ask about my fic and I'm not convinced it's my best but it is the most important to me when it comes to my interpretation of the characters and the show as a whole.

Are they something you just needed to dash off to get to the point where you are? What about meta? Is there fic you've written that's spawned meta, or meta you've written that affected your characterizations

The only other one I needed to write was "Rememered," which was Buffy gen (way) post-Chosen. (Mutually exclusive with Dark and Bright, but whatever.) That was me processing "Chosen" and a lot of the Buffy-hate I still saw in fandom at that point. It didn't spawn meta, but it pretty much was meta. I mean, ostensibly it was fic, but really it was meta. There's a meta post that's kind of been brewing since I post "As Dark Things are Loved" about B/A, but I don't know if I'll actually post it. I haven't been meta-y lately. At all. About anything. I've never before felt all that compelled to articulate my take on the B/A ship, but now I kind of do. We'll see.

As always, really interesting post. I look forward to reading other responses.

[redbrickrose.livejournal.com]

Sorry about all the typos in that comment. It's been a long day.

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

Your posts are always so interesting.

I don't think I write this way, though. I have an internal canon, definitely, but it's based on what I've extrapolated from actual canon (not to say mine is the One True Definition, just that it's, well, MY OTD). So, I don't write to put characters in a place where I want them, I try to write characters in a place where, I believe, based on canon, they could actually be.

In any of my stories, the background truths usually include Spike and Angel have had/are having a sexual relationship of any sort, usually very fucked up, Angel will always love Buffy, and Angel is Not a Nice Man. I didn't write fic to get there, I wrote fic because I believed the show was already there, they just couldn't show me the money around it, for many reasons.

There are exceptions in the stuff I've written, I'm sure. My older stuff might not adhere to the same internal canon (or any real rules of grammar, either). And RPS is a whole nother kettle of fish. But in general, I think this is true for me.

[lostakasha.livejournal.com]

I didn't write fic to get there, I wrote fic because I believed the show was already there, they just couldn't show me the money around it, for many reasons.

Thank you for sparing me the task of writing that in 5,000 words.

Joy: What she said.

[lynnenne]

I have an internal canon, definitely, but it's based on what I've extrapolated from actual canon (not to say mine is the One True Definition, just that it's, well, MY OTD). So, I don't write to put characters in a place where I want them, I try to write characters in a place where, I believe, based on canon, they could actually be.

I do this, too. I think in my Insect!Verse, I've carried the characters pretty far downstream from where they were at the end of "Not Fade Away." But in my head, everything that happened in both those stories *could* have happened, using NFA as a jumping off point. Except maybe for the Angel/Connor sex. But even that, I sometimes wonder. *g*

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

Angel/Connor OTP 4eva eleventy!

Uh. I mean. Bad. Very very bad.

[seraphcelene]

I don't think I write this way, though. I have an internal canon, definitely, but it's based on what I've extrapolated from actual canon (not to say mine is the One True Definition, just that it's, well, MY OTD). So, I don't write to put characters in a place where I want them, I try to write characters in a place where, I believe, based on canon, they could actually be.

Okay. Word!! This is exactly what I was trying to get at, but didn't. :)

[my_daroga]

I am still struggling with all of this, as I feel I don't have a "universe" for my POTO fic. They are just scattered vignettes. So now, as I am trying to write some Persian/Christine (impossible) for a Christmas present, I am wondering: which characters am I writing? Do I start from "the beginning"? Or do I take what I've written and develop those characters in a new situation? I don't have the answers you seek, because I don't think I've gotten that far yet.

[imnotacommittee.livejournal.com]

Well, I named my car after the baby in one of my fics ;-)

[dlgood.livejournal.com]

Another side I'm interested in is the way a meta essay plays into all this. I've written some fics that have allowed me to see the characters in new ways, and then I wrote meta about it. Vice versa, I'm sure it's possible to sit down and write an essay about Angel, and come away with a new way of looking at the character that thereafter, goes into and affects all your fics.

I'm glad that you brought up Meta, because I don't really write fic... but I did spend a lot of time meta-ing and eventually putting up a few "Grand Unified Theory" type posts as a way to systematize what my meta was... to basically find framework/template to view the shows as springboard for future discussion and reference points on them.

[http://users.livejournal.com/peasant_/]

I wrote a story called Chevachee quite early on in my fic writing, which essentially establishes the premise on which all my later Fanged Four stories rely. The basic premise is that it is difficult for a vampire to hunt, and the interesting thing is that very few people who have read my stories and commented seem to have noticed this idea or care about it. Yet I know I couldn't write the stories I do without it because everything else is dependent on that.

I use my meta very much to explore ideas that I will later use in my fic. And I sometimes get cross if I have to explain something in-story which I feel I have already explained in a meta - that's unreasonable of me, I know, but a secret part of me wishes I could just link across to the meta essay.

But overall I am a world-builder. All my ideas are very interlinked. I will add but very, very seldom am I willing to take away. So in that sense every single fic is justified by the ones that have gone before. Even the way-out-on-a-limb AU one has some related ideas.

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[frogfarm]

Oh, that's a fun one. Because I started with Faith/Xander friendship with off-camera Faith/Willow (Maps). Then that "minor aspect" of the plot demanded its own venue, so I switched POV's and fleshed out the backstory and context (Life During Wartime). By the time that was finished, I realized I had a whole series, but felt like I needed some in-between-Apocalypses rest and relaxation to properly establish it. But that prequel turned into a full-fledged fic of its own (Honey Moon Shine) and took so bloody long to write that before it was done, I did another prequel/sequel (Inner Piece) AND an even less planned or predicted far-future sequel set in the series itself (The Ends Of the Earth)...and retconned myself YET AGAIN, by taking an off-the-cuff seemingly unrelated piece and realizing it was actually a Life During Wartime flashback (Parting Gift / Hyacinth Girl). THEN I finally finished that "short, sweet honeymoon piece"...

...and NOW I finally feel ready to tackle the "real project", which is the five-season virtual series I'd started coming up with nearly nine months ago. Whew.

(Thankfully, it seems less complicated than it should be, since it all kinda grew organically just as much or more as it was planned.)

[seraphcelene]

Good Morning Shiny Brain, Good Morning! I missed the last post and I wish I had a chance to chime in, but hey, me with the late as per usual. Anywho!

I find this such an interesting topic because of the wildly varying ways that writers approach writing. Vex Not the Roses is the most external piece of writing I've ever engaged in. Like 5 Reasons Charles Gunn Doesn't Wear a Do-Rag, Vex Not the Roses had an Agenda, although even the 5 Things Gunn wasn't as intentional as Vex. Vex Not the Roses is ALL meta.

I tried to think if I've ever written a justification fic to pave the way for future fics and I don't think that I have. Everything tends to be framed in my head in terms of, and included within, the fic itself. The sequels and companion pieces are usually part of a very contained narrative and don't function as a way of reaching anything other than the close of a narrative arc and mostly because I don't write epic fic and it's easier for me to think in parts. So, I write shorter parts that make up a longer whole, but it's all the same story (par example: "Secrets Not Long Buried" and "A Butterfly Dream of Sand and Sky"). Does that make sense? The biggest thing to probably affect future writing or to have actuallly "started" something would probably be "eyes like the summer, all beauty and truth" because it opened up a way for me to write Mal/River fic (there is a sequel, btw). But even with that it wasn't a case of jutifying their relationship. I couldn't figure out How to get Mal and River together so I actually just started in media res. They are and that's kind of it. We move on from there. Same thing with Dawn/Xander in 'That Which Survives' and 'Hemorrhage'. It just sort of is, although I do try and frame their relationship, at least in my head, in terms of some begin. Typically, I think of The End of Days. I don't think it's ever as concrete or out there as I would like or that it maybe should be. Again, it just is.

I find it so interesting to read this and I can't wait to dive into the comments because universal writing is fascinating to me, probably because I don't do it.

OMG! I am completely incoherent and this is an awesome bit of converstaion. YAY! I'll just end with YAY!!

[zibbycomix.livejournal.com]

I really like the questions that you posed. You know, it's funny, because I think everything happened in a sort of opposite way for me. Here's what I mean: I used to be exclusively a Harry/Ginny and Hermione/Ron shipper. I had heard of people being Hermione/Harry shippers, and I was thinking, "Huh? How can people think that?" I didn't even know that people were shipping all sorts of other combinations.
Then I stumbled onto LJ (I can't remember exactly how), and it made me aware of the oh so many shipping possibilities. At first, I was sort of repulsed by Harry/Draco, thinking "What?" But then I discovered so many comics and fics with positive (as in, really cute) portrayals of H/D. Soon I came to like H/D, and then I came to love it. There are still some ships that I think, "Huh?" about (such as Harry/Ron), but I think it's nice that people are writing whatever they want to write (if that makes sense).
So, my fic hasn't had much to do with anything, especially since I haven't written much of it. Mostly it's just other people's fic that's influenced me... in a good way. =)