Are you there, science? It's me.

[lettered]

I’ve always wanted to know everything about everything, and I’ve always loved the way everything connects to everything else. Except science.



It always bothered me to say I didn’t like science. If I’m interested in everything, how come I can’t be interested in the most fundamental thing? Science is about what things are, what makes everything the way it is. How could I not be interested?

It occurs to me now that science posits, “reality is”, and maybe I had a problem with that. I am in some ways interested in everything because, “maybe reality isn’t”. Also, maybe it could be said science is reality; everything else is meta-reality, and for some reason the more levels removed from reality you get while still making sense, the more interested I become. It’s probably true of me that I like contemplating the universe more than the universe itself.

But it also bothered me to say I didn’t like science, because—well, it sounded to me like saying you like kids, which I’ve also found sort of ridiculous. Some kids are cool; some kids suck. Some science is nifty; some sucks. Maybe chemistry is awesome and biology blows.

But it’s possible to really just like kids, both cool kids and sucky kids. And I really just didn’t like science.

Then I fell in love. So, okay, I like science now. All of science, not just choice parts of biology. But what I’m interested in right now is why I didn’t like it, and why other people may not. Is it just me, or is this a hard subject to get into? Is it just me, or does it seem like kids will more likely be interested in anything else more than science (or possibly math)? And is it just me, or does it seem like the latter are more often girls?

It’s a gross stereotype. There are plenty of women doctors and astronauts and biologists. But I’m always hearing how tech schools are 90% guys. Companies ache for girl engineers to fulfill their quotas. From what I’ve heard labs are still predominantly male, and while female physicists exist, all the famous ones I know are men.

Is it male oppression? Women still can’t get these high paying jobs? These positions of authority? These careers which require higher thinking, since we all know women have tiny brains?

Is it just taking longer for these fields to open up to women?

Does it have to do with stereotypes of women not being technical-minded, of women being “artsy”, women focusing on “feeling more than fact”?

What do you think? Are you interested in science? Why or why not? What do you think about science? Women in science? The history of women in science, and whether it says anything about how far we’ve come as a society or not?

Comments

[hl]

Physics, chem and biology are dominated by women at the 'number of students' level around here. (I'm not sure about math -- I know that physics was male-dominated when my elder brothers studied it, and I know that changed, but I don't have math people now to find out the other.)

I do think that science gets an unfair rep in highschool -- we're not taught science properly. They just tell you stuff that seems either random or too common-sense, and then make you memorize it. That's not science.

I know of a camp (a physics prof from the university was involved) that basically took high-school kids and ask them basic physics questions. They learnt physics by finding out the answers, by themselves, with experiments. That is science, and I bet those kids loved it.

I also talk a lot with my now 18yo and 14yo cousins. They say they don't like science, a lot, and have said it since they were little. But they ask me tons of stuff about reality (either biology or chem seems to interest them more), and they hear and remember the answers.

I do think that an emphasis on women in science would've made it easier for me to picture me actually working at it. I still have trouble with it and assume the few boys around know more than I do (not true always!).

Science

[(Anonymous)]

I recently became interested in getting a second degree, in architecture and engineering, based on my interest in interior design/usability. I took College Algebra and Trig, and then looked out over the four more years of pure mathematics before I would be allowed to design and build anything, and I just flat gave up.

In the abstract, I love science. I'm always interested in pop-science books, and I can tell that the "frontiers" of science are really interesting. But there's so much school between here and there! It seems that all the "low-hanging fruit" has been picked, so to get to the really interesting stuff takes at least 4-5 years of study at the college level. Frankly I'm just not willing to put the time in.

Also, your idea about the camp (and how kids must love it) is exactly the opposite of my experience. I had a high school math teacher who expected us to work out how to do it on our own. It infuriated me. "The answer has already been figured out, people know how to do it, why do I have to start from scratch?" It felt like a waste of time. I had been on track to take AP Calc my senior year of high school, but that teacher ensured that I never took another math class for seven years. (I tested out of my college's GenEd requirement.) It wasn't that I disliked figuring out how to do it, exactly... it was that the person sitting in front of me *knew* how to do it, and weren't telling me.

Anyway. Just my personal experience.

[nianeyna.livejournal.com]

As a woman studying in a very male-dominated field (computer science), I have a theory about the seriously skewed ratios. As I see it we have two main problems:

1) Social stigma. Women are "feeling." They're "nurturing." They have "intuition." They can't think critically, and anyway no guy wants to marry a woman who's smarter than he is, right? And on and on ad nauseum. Let me tell you, if everyone is telling you repeatedly that you can't do something, you really start to think you can't do it.

2) I'm not sure how to explain this. Okay - so I went to an all girls high school. And I took AP Computer Science. There were twelve girls in my class. There I was, learning to program, it was fun! I decided to major in it. I knew it would be male dominated, but hey, no big right? We're all there to learn, gender doesn't matter!

No.

When you're one of one or two women in a class of fifteen, twenty people, you are not a computer science major. You are a female computer science major. You are The Girl. It's not that anyone is creepy or condescending, it just feels like being under a microscope. If I do badly, I have to wonder whether it's because everyone's right and girls really are bad at this, or whether I've proved everyone right and my classmates are now thinking, man, girls just can't keep up. If someone helps me with my homework, is it because I'm their friend or because they're being chivalrous or some shit like that. My point is, even if a girl manages to maintain interest in math or science long enough to actually go into it, chances are she'll leave, because the environment is the opposite of inviting. It's like accidentally wearing jeans to a formal dress party or something. Everyone's too polite to say anything, but you still feel awkward and out of place.

All of which is a long winded way of saying: it's culture. The reason girls aren't interested in science is because we punish them for it.

[kenaressa.livejournal.com]

I've been interested in science since....forever I think. I majored in Biology in University, and now I'm a costume designer ^^;

I'm more interested in Biology on the macro level, instead of the micro and super micro levels that are/were becoming more and more cutting edge (and hence where all the jobs and research positions are...not too many new openings in systems level biology...at lease percentage wise).

And then I decided the art side of me was the one I really wanted to follow. ^____^ Biology and science is still a hobby of mine though!

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Hm, I think it has a lot to do with the way we are brought up. I can't even count how often I heard that girls "had a hard time" with natural sciences and it was a self fulfilling prophesy for me. I sucked in math and physics when I was around 12 (while I was good as a child), but that changed when I got a good chemistry teacher, which is what I ended up studying. Interestingly enough physics there though on a much higher lever didn't bug me at all.

I'm working in computational chemistry at the university now and what I find interesting is how some natural sciences start to have a lot more women, while others still keep up the old myths.

Chemistry hasn't many women, but it is still better than physics or engineering. Fields like Pharmacy or Biology are actually becoming female dominated these days at least as far as students go.

In natural sciences there is a lot of hot air blown around and sometimes I think women fall easier to the myth that everything there must be hard and complicated, when it's really not that hard and people just pretend it is to look smarter.

Delurking to say...

[(Anonymous)]

This (http://www.slideshare.net/terriko/how-does-biology-explain-the-low-numbers-of-women-in-cs-hint-it-doesnt), this (women & physics powerpoint) (http://www.yale.edu/spsyale/cuwpy/09JanCUWPY.ppt), and this (women & math powerpoint) (http://www.math.rutgers.edu/~taylor/WomenAndMathematics.ppt). Sorry about the powerpoints...

Sarah

[bigmamag.livejournal.com]

This is a really thought-provoking article, but I probably have less of a clue than you do about this subject. I've always liked science, at least certain subjects. But I'm terrible at math and I couldn't give a flip about chemistry, physics, or a good portion of biology. I suppose I'm a girl stereotype because I'm good at the arts and I like theoretical science, like Schrodinger's cat and multiple dimensions, psychology, sociology, and almost all of astronomy.

As to your questions, I think a lot of it is bias, but then I also sort of think that women and men are built differently. Yes, women are able to be brilliant scientists and mathematicians and men can be amazing writers and artists, but I also think that for the most part, our brains are different. Women tend to understand the realm of feelings and men the realm of cold hard facts. That doesn't mean that ALL women and ALL men are like this or should be relegated to gender roles or should be stereotyped or stopped from reaching past a glass ceiling, but it does provide an explanation.

[orexisbella.livejournal.com]

J, did you get my PM? Sorry to bug but I've gotten like, exactly one reply and I'm freaking out a little bit.