![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Fan world problems
Sometimes I'm very confused about what I want from writing fanfic. Sometimes I want to write Careful Stories and other times I want to satisfy my id. I think a lot of people would say that fandom is about the latter, definitely, but it never really has been for me. My absolute favorite stories in fandom are the ones that a) make me think, or b) leave my id wanting more. I have loved (b) type stories as much as canon sometimes, because it produces that same feeling of wanting to fill in all the missing pieces. I love that feeling; it's part of why I've always been so fannish.
So when I go to write, I always feel like I'm making the choice between filling in those pieces (an id-pleaser), or creating more stories with carefully crafted missing bits (a Careful Story). My id is pleased by both, just in different ways. And I generally do write both, but when it comes to which one I'm going to do the work to finish, a decision has to be made. I'm only ever pleased by 60-90% of writing stories. I'm never pleased over the last 10-40%. If I just did whatever I wanted, I'd never have a single story finished. That would also ultimately be displeasing.
For the most part I choose Careful Stories, though I have to say with HP fandom it was id-pleasers. And I have to say that I feel the id-pleasers were better received. I felt like they got more love and attention than other things I've written in fandom, and love and attention is of course very pleasing. But in the long run, I feel less satisfied with those sorts of stories. When I look back on them they don't make me very happy; maybe it's because they give you so much there's nothing to chew on later.
So then there's this constant pressure of but-if-you-just-wrote-that-Tony/Bruce/Pepper-D/s-it-would-make-you-so-happy-and-you'd-get-so-many-kudos-and-then-maybe-more-people-would-read-your-other-stories, and I feel like I have to turn it off because it's not what's going to make me happy in the long run. But then I find myself almost being too careful and not writing anything I want, just because I think it's "better" for me. That happened with Let's Stop The Time Warp Again, which got very difficult and depressing for me to write. Which makes me sad, because I was having a lot of fun with both it and the series, and trying very hard to write only what pleased me, but now what pleases me is very fraught with being careful and good enough and whether people like it or not.
Wow, that was a whole lot of angst, but it felt very good to say. I do recognize that all of this matters very little in the scheme of things.
So when I go to write, I always feel like I'm making the choice between filling in those pieces (an id-pleaser), or creating more stories with carefully crafted missing bits (a Careful Story). My id is pleased by both, just in different ways. And I generally do write both, but when it comes to which one I'm going to do the work to finish, a decision has to be made. I'm only ever pleased by 60-90% of writing stories. I'm never pleased over the last 10-40%. If I just did whatever I wanted, I'd never have a single story finished. That would also ultimately be displeasing.
For the most part I choose Careful Stories, though I have to say with HP fandom it was id-pleasers. And I have to say that I feel the id-pleasers were better received. I felt like they got more love and attention than other things I've written in fandom, and love and attention is of course very pleasing. But in the long run, I feel less satisfied with those sorts of stories. When I look back on them they don't make me very happy; maybe it's because they give you so much there's nothing to chew on later.
So then there's this constant pressure of but-if-you-just-wrote-that-Tony/Bruce/Pepper-D/s-it-would-make-you-so-happy-and-you'd-get-so-many-kudos-and-then-maybe-more-people-would-read-your-other-stories, and I feel like I have to turn it off because it's not what's going to make me happy in the long run. But then I find myself almost being too careful and not writing anything I want, just because I think it's "better" for me. That happened with Let's Stop The Time Warp Again, which got very difficult and depressing for me to write. Which makes me sad, because I was having a lot of fun with both it and the series, and trying very hard to write only what pleased me, but now what pleases me is very fraught with being careful and good enough and whether people like it or not.
Wow, that was a whole lot of angst, but it felt very good to say. I do recognize that all of this matters very little in the scheme of things.
Thoughts
no subject
no subject
But that is a very simple distinction. Lots of times, it also has to do with how in-character a story is. For instance, taking X-Files again--one remarkable thing about the show is that Mulder and Scully so rarely talk about their feelings. Scully doesn't because canonically she is very repressed and closed off. It's less clear why Mulder doesn't, but his silence may be character-driven as well. Lots of times you can tell they really care about each other, and they're just not saying it. You just want to shout at the screen, "OMG, kiss already!" In an id-fic, at the point where you would shout that, they would kiss. There would be no explanation for why they finally kiss that time but didn't all those other times; it would just be wish-fulfillment for all those other times you wish they had kissed.
In a careful fic, they might kiss, but all the writing leading up to it would show why they do kiss then, but didn't all those other times. The story would show you that the characters have evolved and changed, and that's why they're behaving differently; or it would show you which circumstances were necessary for these two people to kiss.
I'm using a romantic example, because this is really common in fandom. There are the fics that are about how and why Harry Potter and Draco Malfoy hook up, and then there are the fics that are just hooking up without an explanation. In the former you're doing the work to show how they got there, and in the latter you're assuming they're already there.
But anyway, the non-romantic species of this happens all the time. Some people really wish that Spike was appreciated by the Scoobies. An id fic might just show the Scoobies appreciating him. A "careful" fic might show how the Scoobies have to change for that to happen, or what Spike had to do differently.
Another distinction is happy endings and feel good moments. I adore angst, but I also want the characters I love to be happy and get what they need. However, there are some characters who I just don't think can really live happily ever after in their universes. I think Angel is eternally damned. I think Sam and Dean Winchester are never going to be happy. I think Tony Stark and Bruce Banner are never going to get what they want. I like this about these characters. I like that they're tragic and I like that they make me sad. But if I was gonna get some immediate and uncomplicated satisfaction from them I'd write AUs wherein their situations aren't quite so hopeless, or I'd adjust their characters so they can better deal with their emotional problems, or I'd introduce some kind of deus ex machina to take away their problems.
But if I was gonna write the ego (careful) story, I'd write about why they can never be happy and how they're going to damn themselves further. And that would make me pretty depressed and really fucking sad, but it would also be really satisfying in a long-term kind of way.
Sometimes my id stories turn into ego stories. Lots of times I write something kinda cracky just for some cheap thrills, and it turns into something thinky and serious that eventually is no longer thrilling, but instead thought-provoking, and says what I actually want it to about the characters or situation. This can be difficult both for myself and for readers.
That was probably a way longer explanation than you wanted, sorry.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2013-04-09 11:12 pm (UTC)(link)Also, hi. I don't have a DW account or anything; I read Any Other Superstar somewhere in an odd, month-long "oh, I guess I read HP fanfiction now" jag, and I have kept tabs here ever since, because it was exactly the kind of thing I wanted to read. I think that you would call it a careful story, because you had to work so hard to earn those last scenes - but that's what I like. That's why, in spite of the stigma towards fanfiction in general, I really love this specific sort of fic and occasionally sift through the internet trying to find it. You get your indulgent, glorious porn, but so much time was spent explaining /why/ it was allowed to happen, it all sticks in your...well, my memory, and I come back to those thinky bits and really enjoy them for a good while. I can't think of a novel off the top of my head that has glorious indulgent porn. But I can't disengage my brain enough to get much out of porn happening to characters that I know without sufficient...context given for it, I guess.
I'm not sure what I'm getting at! I wasn't sure I would be able to articulate anything at all, but like I said, it caught my eye, and you know, hi, I'm a reader who's never said a word and maybe ought to, because I've been appreciating your work for a while now. I guess, condensed version: I read shit on the internet for id-gratification, because I don't find much of that in the other books that I read. But I really only care for it if I'm given that buildup before the payoff: this hasn't happened with these characters because of this, but here is how things change and you get to see 'em fuck.
...Yes. Okay.
no subject
I totally think that what might be id for the author doesn't have to be for the reader though, and vice versa. And that's interesting too, because as a reader, I'm less drawn to the "careful" stories. They end up being the ones I love the most, the ones I remember the most, and the ones I keep coming back for, but they're also the ones that leave me emotionally drained, the ones I have to convince myself to read, the ones I rarely want to dip into unless I'm in the right mood. Usually I just wanna read something that's gonna make me happy and feel good by the end of it (usually with sufficient angst along the way).
I think most of us want both at some point or other. I just find it difficult to identify which I want when.
Thanks again for your comment :o)
no subject
But I *do* get the id vs. careful thing with writing AU scenarios for happy endings or giving couples kids who I can't see actually having kids in canon, or letting characters have the emotionally developed conversation that they would never actually have -- either because the canon timelines/logistics don't work or because they're the kind of people who wouldn't have that conversation. And it also helps me UNDERSTAND the existence of fics like the 'improbable apology fic' or the 'romantic partners switch without explanation fic' or the 'actually, NOBODY DIED fic.
no subject
This is so interesting to me.
letting characters have the emotionally developed conversation that they would never actually have
Yes, this! If they're the type of people who wouldn't have that conversation, you could spend 200,000 words making them grow and finally become the type of people who have that conversation, and it is so, so satisfying. But it's also a lot of work, and so slow, and not a lot of people are going to read it. But if you just wrote that conversation, it'd be 1,200 words--slightly implausible, but immediately satisfying. And lots of people would love it (and tell you that it was totally in character). And you'd feel so good writing it and getting those responses! But a year later you wouldn't feel as though those characters got there and had that conversation and really could be ultimately emotionally mature and happy, whereas if you wrote that 200,000 word fic, it can almost feel like a secondary canon in your head. Or that's how it is for me, anyway.
And it also helps me UNDERSTAND the existence of fics like the 'improbable apology fic' or the 'romantic partners switch without explanation fic' or the 'actually, NOBODY DIED fic.
Yes. Although it's still difficult to understand the, "and actually they're not brothers and one of them is a mermaid" fic.
no subject
This is so interesting to me.
Does this mean, "Please explain?" LOL. Well, how should I put it? If there's a fantasy involving characters that really turns me on, I have better uses for it than writing it down/ sharing it with people who might not be into it? Whereas the stuff that draws me to a ship that I really want to SHARE with people tends to be emotional rather than sexual. (Or if I do want to say, "Hey see how sexy they are!" it's easier for me to bookmark somebody else's fic that I find hot, or link to a screencap or panel or fanart).
That just comes down to my personal relationship with fanfic and fan communities, though, which has never really been about the porn. (And now I feel like one of those people who goes, "I'm not really IN fanfic for PORN like those OTHER people," which isn't the intention, it's just my personal experience).
no subject
But I have a tendency not to finish any of that stuff. Basically once I start to write it I can finally finish it in my head, like I couldn't hold it all, beginning, middle, and end, but once I get the beginning and middle down I can finally imagine the end, and that provides the satisfaction I was looking for. But if I am going to share with people, they usually demand that it be finished, so that's when I have to make decisions about what I want to share.
Wow, and that was a whole lot about me me me. But what I mean is, it is fascinating to me that we have different uses for those fantasies that turn us on, and what compels us to write what. When I really ship characters I have the "WRITE SEX NOW" feeling so very strongly. When I don't ship characters, writing porn for them is more of an intellectual exercise, like I'm trying to identify how that impulse operates. It was interesting to me that even though you don't have the "WRITE SEX NOW" impulse for characters you do ship, you still engage in that intellectual exercise for characters you don't. I think it's neat :o)
I'm not really IN fanfic for PORN like those OTHER people,
You don't sound like that.
no subject
It was interesting to me that even though you don't have the "WRITE SEX NOW" impulse for characters you do ship, you still engage in that intellectual exercise for characters you don't.
Not, I should say, for characters I actively anti-ship, but thinking of things like porn battle claims or fic exchange assignments, where I like both characters but probably haven't given much thought to how they would fit together.
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
...Oh great now I have to go find some Viola/Orsino.
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
For me, there doesn't seem to be that much of a divide between how long they each take. Jewel in the Dust is a careful look at the character dynamics in season one of White Collar, and how they lead to the events of season three. It took me a day and a half (it's also under 2000 words, but still). Only Truly Dead, my Air Nomad genocide fic and Holding This Breath both took absolutely forever, and
Trail the Footsteps of Shadows, possibly the most emotionally difficult, take that, Fandom, thing I've ever written took about two weeks.