lettered | Meta: bunch of random half-thoughts

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Meta: bunch of random half-thoughts

S. Hotmail doesn't seem to be working for me. I can't get to any of my email. (eta: working now. It was down for hours!)
A. My brain hurts from trying to write too many concepts and not enough plot.
D. I'm at work, I have no laptop, and I can't think.

!. I always have a billion fandom, meta, fic thoughts that I just don't post about because I want to Think Them Out and present them in an orderly fashion, so we can have real, big discussions about them. See S.-D. for why I'm not about to do that.

Instead, I brain-dump all at once.

Closed vs. Open Canon, Writing AUs
I don't get this whole deal about closed canon being more difficult to write in than open canon. In open canon, you start from the last ep/book/movie/comic/etc, and extrapolate different things that could happen. And the reason you can't pick BtVS S3 ep 14, or HP:GoF, or whatever, and extrapolate from there is...why? Are AUs really such an anathema? Or are people so stuck in a rut that once (all-knowing-mystical) Canon (amen) does something, there's nothing different you can think to happen at earlier points?

Dark!fics: definition, and the endless 'vs. fluff' debate.
A long, long time ago, there was that meme about My Dark!fic. The meme confused me, as so many people seemed to be saying, "Well, it's only dark if it's well written, or if I respect it," which to me, had an underlying connotation of, "DARK = GOOD." Um. No? Dark is admittedly something that's emerged as a "fanfic genre", and as such it's something we need to define for ourselves. But does it need to be so subjective?

Unpopular Fannish Opinion #1: Fandom, I owe you nothing.
There's this cyclical debate between the people who see fandom as a community to which you should pay dues, mow your lawns, vs people who see fandom as fun/a hobby to which they owe nothing. Except the best work you can do.

Um. Excuse me? I'm always nodding along with the latter group, until suddenly, these "except"s crop up. I don't owe fandom good fic. I don't owe fandom fic at all! I don't owe fandom proper English or complete sentences! I don't owe fandom schlock. Except, ok, maybe one thing: I owe fandom the understanding that I get out what I put in.

Wait, no, not even that. I have the right to be a dickhead and whine about no one loving me, even though I don't do anything that invites said love. The reason I don't is because I feel I owe that to myself. I owe it to my self-respect not to be an ass-hat, not to anyone else. And those that don't believe that, and are asshats--I'm glad they have the right to be so. I'm glad they're here because I like to laugh at them. And watch more patient people than me tell them to suck it.

Liking characters as people vs. liking them as characters.
I was having this conversation with

redbrickrose:
me: It's interesting to me, the difference between liking a character as a person and liking a character as a character, because I think there's something in between too, that I can't quite put my finger on. [...]

Hannah: There is, and I'm confused too because I've been sitting here trying to word my response and I . . . can't. A lot of it comes down to which characters resonate, I guess and that's so subjective. To continue to use Cally as an example - if I look at it objectively, I find her really sympathetic and all of her reactions make perfect sense in light of the situation she's in. I think I could formulate an argument defending her. Subjectively, while I don't dislike her as a person or as a character, I'm just not all that invested because she doesn't resonate with me. Sometimes character who are HORRIBLE PEOPLE do resonate with me and I can LOVE them even if I don't like them as people. Or it's like Baltar and I don't love him at all, and he doesn't really resonate, but I like to watch him anyway because I find him compelling. So there are other responses, yes, but they are hard to articulate.

Fanfic as the fulfillment which canon lacks.
The way many get into fanfic is best described in this way: two characters on the screen. You're shouting, "Kiss already!" They don't. You go write a fic where they do.
Fanfic is so often wish-fulfillment. Fanfic is often also bad. I wonder, is the lack of kissing, lack of explicit sex, lack of characters whom we'd like to see get together actually together--is that what really makes a good work of fiction? So many people complain about Whedon never letting people have happy relationships, but I think that's true of many artists and creators. They think we don't want to actually watch B/A be fluffy and happy forever. Well, a part of us does, but the angst was what kept us watching. And is this part of the dark vs. fluff debate? O_o

List of fictional unkinks.
E. I feel ambivalent about this list, because I wouldn't want people to look at it and think, "I've written that! TKP must hate my fic!" Uh, no. I think anything can be enjoyable is well written.
R. I don't mean squicks. These are just things that from their abundance in fiction, I assume some people like them. They don't make me turn and run; they just don't do anything for me.
M. I'm going to try to get 100 and then maybe it'll get it's own post.

1. The word "stabbing" in sex scenes.
2. Giving of gifts between loved ones.
3. Celebration, or notation, of anniversaries of anything.
4. Lust at first sight. When all characters can think about is how hot other characters get them, or when it's not all they can think about, but it's a significant distraction.
5. Constant masturbation over object of said lust.
6. Weather symbolism, direct attention called to weather symbolism.
7. Fabric metaphors and similes.
8. The cry, "Aieeeeeee!"
9. Bloodplay.
10. The word, "Master".

What's so intimidating about the blank page/screen?
I have this writing quirk I think others must not share: starting to write on the blank page tends to be easier for me than continuing to write after I've already written 50,000 words of text. That is, I like to start things. I'm always starting things. And when I get a certain amount done, and then get stuck . . . I call up a new doc so it feels like I'm starting something completely new, and start fresh on that doc, and then only later C&P what I've written into the story I've already started. Am I the only one who does this?

And what's so intimidating about the blank page? Is it that you don't know where to start? I do know that I spent four hours today staring at a list of concepts, but didn't know what plot to give to the concepts, so ended up making this post. But...what is it that you're missing? Plot? Theme? What

seraphcelene and I were calling "shape"? And what is shape, anyway? Is it a format? List of events? Style? Rhythm? Premise? Concept? What is my motivation? Why do I have so many thoughts?"

Interconnectivity of Jossverse.
When I want to write fic I don't want to tell a story so much as say something about the characters. Even when my idea starts out as plot based, I write not because I want to see what happens, so much as I want want what happens to reveal who the characters are inside, and to affect that core.

Lots of people say they're burned out on Jossverse; they feel like there are few new stories to tell any more. The more time I spend with it, the more...opposite of that I feel. I feel almost stymied because I'm so overwhelmed by all the possibilities here, by the way some of these characters parallel each other and intersect in so many ways.

Those four hours today, I spent contemplating how Xander is really Angel, and Fred is Cordelia is Faith is Drusilla is Dana is even Jenny Calendar, how Xander/Illyria works in my head, how Buffy is Darla is even Anya, how Willow is Jasmine, how Warren is equivalent to and the antithesis of Jasmine, how Xander was pulling Willow out of her own grave while Connor was puttin Angel into the ocean, a dream Xander has of Anya wearing clothes they never role played in, Xander saying, "I've been everywhere; I don't want to see the world any more," and Anya saying, "I could show you. The things you've always seen, the things most dear." And Xander, "Show me. Show me your world." And Anya, "Close your eyes." And Xander's eyes snap open, and finds himself tangled with Drusilla, who is really Cordelia, tangled with Angel, the sheets strewn about them in such a way that they will never, ever escape the web.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I am commenting because I have read this, but I am lazy and exhausted so have nothing interesting to say.

Except that I've been hoarding my catty and subjective opinions about a lot of porn writing and someday I will hide out with you and confess. I am actually quite annoyed by how picky I am about what sex writing is actually hot to me. SIGH.

I am actually quite annoyed by how picky I am about what sex writing is actually hot to me.

I am actually quite annoyed by how non-picky and yet specific I am about same.

That is, it doesn't have to be good writing to make me hot. But it has to hit a number of kinks, and if it does, even in laundry list form, usually I'm there.

I've seen it all, I've seen the dark
I've seen the brightness in one little spark.
I've seen what I chose and I've seen what I need,
And that is enough, to want more would be greed.
I've seen what I was and I know what I'll be
I've seen it all - there is no more to see!

Bjork!

That song always reminds me of Connor after killing Jasmine now because

stoney321 put it in her charcter mix.

I love Little Prince.

Unpopular Fannish Opinion #1: Fandom, I owe you nothing.

What? I was pretty sure fandom owed me cookies.

Liking characters as people vs. liking them as characters.

This is an easy one for me. I mean, gosh do I love the character of Jim Profit. But he'd kill me and sell my loved ones into slavery if it would get G&G stock to go up a quarter-point. I wouldn't like that guy in person. Heck, my last boss I did not like at all, but he'd make for a great character.

Fanfic as the fulfillment which canon lacks.

Nobody likes a tease. But teases bring people back again and again. Until they get sick of you.

I do know that I spent four hours today staring at a list of concepts, but didn't know what plot to give to the concepts, so ended up making this post.

I'm like that, except way less prolific. My fandom conversations tend to go this way. Lots and lots of ideas and little shape. Which is part of why I haven't written fic in so long. All I have are hooks.

When I want to write fic I don't want to tell a story so much as say something about the characters.

Ditto. For me, that's what I try to do in story - I'm probably even more explicit about it than most. My fic, what there was of it, was character essay in disguise as narrative.

What? I was pretty sure fandom owed me cookies.

I actually have this list of All The Things I Don't Owe Fandom, and most have parenthetical stipulations to the effect of: "unless I promised you otherwise."

Here is the sad story on the cookies: I made them for you and two other people to whom I promised them a month ago. And they are still sitting in my freezer. WTF, self, WTF.

I mean, gosh do I love the character of Jim Profit. [...] I wouldn't like that guy in person.

Well, I think with some characters, it's pretty easy. Some you love as characters, hate as people, that's it. But then there are some you *care* about as people, even when they are people you would not like, which seems like *more* than just caring about them as a character.

Lots and lots of ideas and little shape.

It drives me nuts. In myself, I mean.

My fic, what there was of it, was character essay in disguise as narrative.

I like that, though. Which reminds me, I owe you more than cookies. The thing is, sometimes I *do* get plot ideas, and can do very plotty things, but the point isn't the plot. What I hate is when I get the point without the plot though. That sucks.

Which reminds me, I owe you more than cookies

I forget what else that would be. Was there some sort of prompt/idea we discussed? Not that I'm upset. I remember and I care, but I don't really mind.

there are some you *care* about as people, even when they are people you would not like, which seems like *more* than just caring about them as a character

There's probably some sort of a personal factor in play. Perhaps those characters share traits with yourself or someone you know, and the character serves as a vessel for related issues...

I owe you fb! I never did any of my holiday fb'ing, and I've always wanted to read fic by you, just never gotten around to it!

There's probably some sort of a personal factor in play. Perhaps those characters share traits with yourself or someone you know, and the character serves as a vessel for related issues...

Well, I think you're right. I suppose I've been worrying about it more lately as I find myself more and more drawn to characters I think are weak and spineless selfish brats, and I never was interested in characters like that before. Guess I'm afraid it says something about myself!

Or it says something about the people you know...

I've never gotten the big deal about AUs in some fandoms. HP fandom in particular seems afeared of 'em. I'd agree there's a difference between creating an AU and getting Jossed, but other than that... especially since so many shows have canonical AUs like the Wishverse in Buffy and the Mirror Universe in Star Trek.

I think darkfic is always going to be subjective to some extent, because one person's dark is another person's, uh, not dark. Some people would consider any fic in which a character dies dark, while other have more nebulous criteria like "an atmosphere of despair or hopelessness." I've had people call the exact same story both too dark and too fluffy.

There are characters I like to watch and read about, and there are characters I find compelling and intriguing enough to want to write about or analyze. Neither of those are necessarily characters whom I would like if they were real people and living next door. Characters whom I'd like to live next door to or have a beer with are likely to be the nice stable ones, and therefore less interesting to write about.

I don't think there's anything wrong with wish fulfillment per se. I would be totally lying if I said there was no component of wish fulfillment in the fact that I like to read and write about beautiful, athletic and/or superpowered people having cool adventures or finding true love. But a story which is all wish fulfillment is like spraying whipped cream into your mouth. It's fine as a treat, but as a steady diet it's not all that healthy or fulfilling. On the other hand, I don't think that writing about two people who have a working long-term relationship translates to fluff, either. No matter what characters you're writing about, working relationships don't just magically appear and sustain themselves with no effort.

My fic, what there was of it, was character essay in disguise as narrative.

True. I just think people tend to toss words like "dark" and "fluffy" around at what they do or don't like. There's no way to change that, I guess.

But a story which is all wish fulfillment is like spraying whipped cream into your mouth. It's fine as a treat, but as a steady diet it's not all that healthy or fulfilling.

That's a great way of putting it.

I don't think that writing about two people who have a working long-term relationship translates to fluff, either.

I agree. I just think keeping characters apart and/or breaking up relationships is many of today's storytellers' shorthand for denying the audience something. I guess because society has spent so long trying to convince us that sex and/or marriage = fulfillment, which as you say, isn't true at all.

That first one is not me! (stares fearfully at alien words)

It's been my observation that fluff is liked as much or even more than darkfic. It's just not respected as much. Good fluff is actually harder to write than darkfic in many respects - but mediocre darkfic is likely to get more respect than good fluff. Even though the fluff attracts more squee and favorable feedback. I was pondering this while I finished up my last WIP: there were two possible ways I could have ended the story, one of which involved character death and one of which didn't. And I find myself wondering if it would have been a better story with the death, or simply slightly more depressing. We're taught that unhappiness is deeper and more significant than happiness, and that a happy ending is by definition shallow. Somehow I don't think that can always be right.

there were two possible ways I could have ended the story, one of which involved character death and one of which didn't. And I find myself wondering if it would have been a better story with the death, or simply slightly more depressing.

This is kind of what I mean about wish fulfillment, I think. If you had killed the character off, wouldn't the readers be left wishing the character had lived? I mean, even if they don't *want* you to change it because they feel killing the character off made a "better" story, there's the part that wishes it would've ended happy. So is denying them that what makes them feel the story is better?

We're taught that unhappiness is deeper and more significant than happiness, and that a happy ending is by definition shallow. Somehow I don't think that can always be right.

I agree completely. I hate the practice in literature these days that something is "good" if it's all ugliness and despair. But I can see where it comes from, because we linger on sad endings. Again, *wishing* for the happy. Whereas happy can satisfy us more easily and thus it's easier to move on.

But I think a very well done happy ending could stick with us just as much, it's just as you say--it's more difficult to write.

I'm not sure. If I had killed the character off, there would have been wails of anguish and gnashing of teeth, no little of it mine. But at least one reader said (and I agree with them) that the story would have been equally satisfying either way, in the 'This is the proper way for this story to end' kind of way. Even the character death ending wouldn't have been utterly bleak and hopeless; I just don't do utterly bleak and hopeless. Well, no, I lie - I've written at least one story, from the POV of a teenage boy committing a very gaudy suicide, that was utterly bleak and hopeless - but that was just because of the particular POV it was in. The world in which that character existed wasn't any better or worse than any other.

So my decision was based (I hope) more on "What is the most true-to-character thing for X to do, given their starting place in canon and their subsequent character development in this series?" and "What resolution will best advance the theme of this story and the series as a whole?" and "Am I repeating myself and/or Joss Whedon?" And also the fact that I'd already written other stories which took place later in the same continuity, and so I was to some extent constrained by those later stories events as to whom I could kill off with impunity. Though in the Jossverse, death is often merely a minor inconvenience, so I could have gotten around that if I'd really wanted to.

I suspect that a given reader's estimate of the literary worth of either ending would depend on what they saw as more admirable - a character who bends, or a character who breaks.

I call up a new doc so it feels like I'm starting something completely new, and start fresh on that doc, and then only later C&P what I've written into the story I've already started. Am I the only one who does this?

No!

In fact, at one point, the Crack Addled Drawer Fic of DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM existed in three documents.

When I got to a point when I was happy with the Pivotal Alley Sex of Dubious Consent and Angst-o-Rama (read: when the PASoDCaAoR satisfied my lame-ass kinks), I pasted it into the main doc. And then at some point, when I remembered that the whole start of the DADFoD(OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM) was in a separate file of Abandoned Fic, I c&p'd it, too.

Then there's Sunrise, which exists at the moment in multiple documents and a tracking spreadsheet.

I think, however, that that's all just me Avoiding Actual Work on the thing.

Crack Addled Drawer Fic of DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

Which fic is this?

What is a tracking spreadsheet?

I have an epic of doo(OOOOOOOOOO)m where I have the main doc and then another doc I call "the work sheet", with bits and pieces. The bits and pieces are each separated and labeled and linked with that nifty thing on Word, where you can jump from one part of a doc to the next, so I can call up a Table of Contents on the margin of the worksheet and jump to any bit or piece I want. That's handy.

Someday I would like to discuss with everyone the idea of keeping track of docs and bits of fics and our ideas and such. I think we'll probably *all* find that it is merely a way of AAW.

Re: the crack fic.

So last summer, I started working on this old WIP of mine that had been 3/4ths finished for ages (and, umm, posted, so I had WIP guilt). And, as usual, my brain was like "Min! Embrace the tacky cliche! You'd love it!" and

sathinks kept having to keep me on track and off the tacky cliche thing.

One day, I was digging in the WIPs, and I found this thing I'd started for a ficathon, abandoned, and left to gather dust. There were a few thousand words of it just hanging out, mocking me. "Hmm," said my brain. "Min, you know, you could bring this back to life. You know those cliches I wanted you to use? Dude, you'd TOTALLY be able to work them in here. No one would EVER have to know."

So when I was feeling stressed, or needed a break, I'd write in it. Eventually, it developed an Arc. Well, three overlapping character arcs, actually. And a point. And there was research (a lot of research). And het, and slash, and other het. And Seekrit Babies. And Near Death Experiences Leading to Confessions of Gay Love. And X-TREME Hurt/Comfort. Angst and Snark. At some point, I threw in a mini van.

I got really good at using it to avoid actual writing or revisions.

Keeping in mind that the only real time I have to write is while I'm on my bus ride, which is usually about 45 minutes a day. Over two or three months, I wrote 20,000 words of this.

I love it.

It's never leaving the drawer.

Oh, that makes me sad! The not leaving the drawer part, I mean.

It's amazing how I can keep on coming back to crack I started ages ago, and how it builds. I still have fanfic from the 4th grade I plan on finishing. Srsly.

And anyway I am of the opinion that the more tacky cliches get embraced by good writers, the less tacky and even less cliche they are and the more they become fictional tropes we can turn over and explore. With less shame! Or, I tell myself that, so I feel less embarrassment reading/writing them. Either way.

I keep waiting for the Shame Cliche Ficathon.

Where I'd sign up, sign up for backups, and basically be SO RIGHT THERE.

And honestly, some of these tacky cliches ARE fictional tropes in Regular Fiction. They just get shunted into the shame drawer in fandom, on account of mixing with a bad crowd and gaining a horrible reputation.

Then people are all like, "Oh. My. God. I can't believe you've been hanging out with BABYFIC. Dude, don't you KNOW what her friends are like?"

So you page her on the sly, and only hook up where no one can see you.

I keep waiting for the Shame Cliche Ficathon.

You're brilliant. That *has* to be done.

I'm serious. Has that ever been done before? Have you ever thought about it seriously? Would it be multi-fandom?

entrenous88 once did this post about the fanfic you'd write if you weren't too ashamed to do it. I couldn't believe the number of responses, and the number of people who said, "I'd read that!" I'd love to have a ficathon for that, too.

Then people are all like, "Oh. My. God. I can't believe you've been hanging out with BABYFIC. Dude, don't you KNOW what her friends are like?"

Yeah, just, when people do that, I'm all, "don't judge me by who I hang out with ok!!!" I see even good writers do that, and thoughtful, intelligent people, and I actually find it a little frustrating. Just because something's easy to do badly doesn't mean it can't be done right.

Wow. That's intense. Have you started adding taskers to your Outlook so that you can schedule your fic writing progress.

I don't do that, since I barely write anything these days, but I have developed the habit of assigning myself taskings for stuff at home. Which is sad. I didn't even used to need a "to do list"...

Yeah, thanks Government Industry job.

This makes me glad I don't have Outlook.

Well, or a Government Industry job.

I actually used to write myself "to do" lists a lot more in highschool. But of course, those had stuff like "physics homework, save the world, pay attention to your appearance Joy, practice clarinet, write bestselling novel, eat, be kind to other people they are important even if you forget they exist, practice clarinet again..." on them.

At work, we have an "E-tasker" system and we get daily reports tracking our progress on Action Items. At the end of the month, we pull data out of it to produce our metrics. Which, okay is Anal, but with our sizable and far-flung organization, allows me to:
1. Keep track of the work people are doing on the stuff I assign them
2. Prove to my bosses (who sit down the street from me) that I'm actually doing work

And yo - Clarinet! My sister plays clarinet.

That actually sounds very efficient.

I sucked at clarinet, but I loved being able to play.

I work in tech.

Specifically, I work for a major tech company that just had a huge release of something where the word WOW was used repeatedly.

I'm not schedule plussing myself yet, but sometimes I'm tempted to start up a bug database or twelve for everything. Including household chores, home repair, and fic writing.

I...actually like blood play in smut fic.

Your last paragraph made me supremely happy and I wish I could comment intelligently on it. Alas.

bloodplay: Lots of people do. Thus the abundance of biting. I actually don't really find vampire biting all that sexy. Anything that breaks the skin sends my thoughts down other corridors (is that healthy? wouldn't blood loss turn you off? how can Angel maintain an erection if he's losing blood? HOW DOES ANGEL MAINTAIN AN ERECTION IN THE FIRST PLACE???, stuff like that). Biting, however, that doesn't break the skin is a huge old kink of mine, especially when it leaves big purple chewed-on bruises because every time he came he bit into the exact same place where her shoulder flowed into her neck. *shudder*

Same with any kind of bloodplay. I wrote a fic in which Buffy stabbed Angel while they were having sex and he really got off on it, but that was because I believed it was necessary for plot/theme purposes and not because I have that kink.

last paragraph: me too.

Wait- did I read that B/A stabbing story?? Because. Guh.

I don't think about vampire erections anymore. I mean- you know what I mean. The mechanics of them. I just accept it as a supernatural event no less likely than vampires existing in the first place. Plus, it's obvious they get off on violence, so it seems likely to me they would like some of that in their sex. The sex bite is canonical anyway, between Darla and Angelus, and certainly Drusilla.

Hickeys are a nice kink. There are hickeys in the story I hope you can finally get open.

-It was in 5 Way NFA Probably Didn't End. Which is kinda cumbersome, so I'd forgive you for not reading it. The stabbing and sex was supposed to be hot, but ended up trying to be all Meaningful And Shit.

-Yes, of course. I don't think about vampire erections that much either except when the biting starts happening, I can't help it. And it's definitely canon and *definitely* something one would expect them to do, I just don't find it as hot as say, A/S punching each other's lights out. I dunno why!

-I can get it open now! Thanks so much.

YAY to the getting it open. Don't be surprised (or feel bad) if it doesn't work for you. It was pretty much written to mine and Fod's kink spec. Which is just astounding, really.

I find A/S beating the living shit out of one another really hot too. Even when it doesn't end in onsceen sex. I don't want to know what that says about me.

-I just think we share a lot of kinks, which was one of the reasons I was so interested. That, and guh.

-Me too. In fact I don't want to know what *most* my kinks say about me. I just want to have them in my fantasy land and be all hot and happy and unconcerned with them. Which fandom (for the most part) lets me do!

"Which fandom (for the most part) lets me do!"

So say we all.

Probably my biggest non!kink is the blood tie, or mystical links of any kind. Maybe I OD'd on it before the Buffyverse, or during, but I just find the whole thing a shortcut. Where's the tension, the story, when two people know what the other is thinking/feeling all the time?

Blank pages are alluring to me. It beckons me to ignore the thirty WiPs on my Word doc with something shiny and new.

I do view all my fic as wish-fulfillment but most of them don't end happily, or end at all. I like to write 'snapshots' of what-ifs without diverging to wildly from the source material. I have this block where if any fic ends with Cordy and Angel snuggling in front of a fire, then there wouldn't be anything left for me to say. And also, it's too easy to solve their problems with a paragraph or ten, and presumptuous, when the shows themselves couldn't. If that makes sense.

blood tie, or mystical links of any kind

No wonder you didn't want to buy Beauty and the Beast on DVD. Which I did, btw. Like, three days after you mentioned it. OMG I LOVE THIS SHOW. But yeah, they have like this empathic link, and I agree, it would be better without it. And this goes back to my Romance Pet Peeves which I've been compiling...I think what's interesting about the list is that I *used* to find these things sexy and entertaining. I used to think characters having some kind of "link" was really cool. Now I agree, it seems like a total shortcut, and things are so much more complex when it's just human being trying to connect like the rest of us. EVEN IF ONE OF THE HUMAN BEINGS IS A CAT-MAN. *coughs*

It beckons me to ignore the thirty WiPs on my Word doc with something shiny and new.

Dude. Are you me? *checks*

I do view all my fic as wish-fulfillment but most of them don't end happily, or end at all.

Yeah, it's interesting how many sad stories I still think of as wish fulfillment. It's wish fulfillment in that we wanted to see the romance addressed in this way, even if it doesn't end happy.

If that makes sense.

Completely.

I used to think characters having some kind of "link" was really cool.

Maybe it'd be cool of the link was detrimental to both people. You know, if in case one accidently writes a blood exchange between a human and a vampire, and now is cornered by plot idea she can't get out of?

Um, but yeah. I used to think it was awesome and cool but I think we eventually get past the need to see a 'link' between two people. Attraction is a strong enough link, a complusion for someone, without convenient mystical/blood origins.

Dude. Are you me?

*checks birth certificate*

Nope. Still me. *g*

You know, if in case one accidently writes a blood exchange between a human and a vampire, and now is cornered by plot idea she can't get out of?

Hahaha! You're so cute. No, I think it can work. I mean, I'm loving BatB right now even thought they do have that link stuff. I just think it's something that needs to be handled both sparingly and carefully.

Know what I was thinking about today?

*props chin in hand*

Why Vincent never entered Katherine's apartment. He always went as far as the balcony, and no further. He'd make noise or softly call her name, and wait for her to come out. The only times I remember him entering was when she was beaten in her living room, and another time when she was kidnapped (I *know*, narrow it down much?).

I wondered if it was some odd way of keeping him separate from the world above, as if by entering her domiscile, suddenly he'd just be this big man-cat standing there in ruffles and a cape.

More seriously, maybe it represented lines he wasn't willing to cross. Yet.

!!!!!!!!!! I love you, you know that?

So I was reading BatB fanfic the other day and it mentioned as to how Vincent never came in Catherine's apartment, and I thought, "he has to have. All those times she was getting beaten in her living room, and kidnapped!" Then I watched some more eps and sure enough, she was getting beaten in her living room and he saved her. But then I noticed yeah, he *doesn't*.

Anyway. I thought it was lines he wasn't willing to cross, but your first theory makes a lot of sense, like, show-wise. I mean, on many levels, the premise is kinda stupid, the whole catman thing is kinda silly, and the way they dress him is...yeah, so bringing him into "real life" as it were seems even more far-fetched somehow than keeping him in this underground fantasy place.

when I want to write fic I don't want to tell a story so much as say something about the characters. Even when my idea starts out as plot based, I write not because I want to see what happens, so much as I want want what happens to reveal who the characters are inside, and to affect that core.

This is very true for me as well (I'm horrible with plot). I think it goes with what you were saying about wish-fulfillment earlier on. I don't write fic for wish-fulfillment so much as I read fic for wishfullfillment, but I do write fic mainly to process canon; it's not about fixing it, but it is about analyzing it and processing it and making it make more sense to me. Sometimes I have to explain things to myself. I wish I could write just to play with the world. I wish I was good with plot and could just write stories, but it doesn't seem to work that way for me so much.

I love your last paragraph. I love that you see it that way. Oh, my show.

it's not about fixing it, but it is about analyzing it and processing it and making it make more sense to me. Sometimes I have to explain things to myself.

Yeah, exactly. It's amazing how many times I've sat down with meta about a character and then decided to write a fic instead of an essay. There was this post on metafandom a bit ago about how fanfic is/can be academic/intellectual discourse, except it's the intuitive sort rather than the analytical. I thought that was a brilliant way of looking at it.

I wish I could write just to play with the world.

I do do this at times and it's never pretty.

As for plot...even when I have a plot and really think I am writing *just* to make something happen, a theme creeps up that ends up being something Deep And Meaningful I've discovered or need to process about the characters.

and thanks!

I have not much to say because I was pretty much just going through this whole thing nodding "Yes, yes, uh huh, totally think that too" so I'm just basically commenting to say "Yes, yes, uh huh, I really agree with all of this." Especially The cry, "Aieeeeeee!" But not so much the blank page vs continuing on thing, because I'm with the majority and more intimidated by the blank page, unless I've just had something running through my head and it's just bursting to get out there. Also, the last paragraph was way more than I have ever thought about, but I find it quite mind-blowingly awesome, so!

Well, I guess I don't really sit down to write unless I have something bursting to get out...but then once I get out everything that was running through my head, I dunno what to do with it! It's not usually a complete story.

And thanks.

It was bizay today at work, but I conquered all that I suveyed. Boo-YA!!!

Anyway, back to things that *matter* ...

Closed vs. Open Canon, Writing Aus

Having been weaned on Farscape fic, and specifically Maayan’s fic, the AU is probably, for me, the best part about fandom. When writers can see their way past canon, whether it’s closed or open, and into Uncharted Territories (pun intended).

Dark!fics: definition, and the endless 'vs. fluff' debate.

That’s so curious. I always think of dark in terms of theme. Hopelessness, despair, suicide, etc. And it isn’t always good. I think someone mentioned well written fluff is harder to write and I think it’s true. I also think that my tolerance for poorly written dark!fic is higher than my tolerance for poorly written fluff because fluff can become so trite and clichéd so very easily. But dark is dark and fluff … fluff is happily ever after but that doesn’t make it any less worthy. In fact, if you can get me to *believe* in that happily ever after you are amazing and I am pea green with jealously because I can’t seem to be able to get the characters there under my own steam. There’s always more dirt to rub on their faces and a deeper well to drop them down. Truth be told, I like to see how they react under pressure, how they fracture. I like to see if I can break them but keep them *in character*.

That need ties into fanfic as wish fulfillment. For me it kinda isn’t. Reading fanfic is definitely wish fulfillment but writing it is … different. There’s a dark corner of my brain that likes to torture them and make them beyond real. I can’t just let them be happy. If it were wish fulfillment the only thing I can think that I would write is lots o’ porn because there’s *never* enough sex in my shows. But again, maybe not, cause I always think that as dark as my shows were, are, it could be worse. Hence things like Let Me Start to Fade Away. So, perhaps by extension, the characters that I love the most, want to write about the most, are the ones whose, Adam Haslett wrote, pain seems the most real to me. Willow’s grief, Buffy’s despair, Dawn’s alienation

What's so intimidating about the blank page/screen?
I have this writing quirk I think others must not share: starting to write on the blank page tends to be easier for me than continuing to write after I've already written 50,000 words of text. That is, I like to start things. I'm always starting things.>/i>

Hallelujah!! Starting things is THE BEST. Finishing it, closing the deal, that’s the kicker and the pain in my ass!! I always feel like I cop out on the end of my fic. Very, very seldom does it come together for me in an ending that feels organic enough. But the beginning … the beginning is a dream and I think it goes back to that “shape”. It is, for me, rhythm and I can hear it in the beginning and it’s usually very strong but then it peters out or disappears or the tone changes because suddenly I’m heading in a different direction and I have to fine tune what I have to mesh with what’s changing within the fic. The Angel NFA thing has been so hard to work on because I find myself LOATHE to cut anything and I am going to be a sucker for you when it’s ready for the next beta round (if you’re still up for it). You’re going to get to take a machete to it, I’m sure and I’m going to let you cause I’ve Lost My Perspective completely.

And as far as the end of your post is concerned … Hallelujah and Amen.

What inspires me to write varies. Sometimes it's a certain character, and sometimes I think of a situation or concept in my head and think "there should be a story about this!" And then of course there's the "I had a dream about it and it would make such a cool story!"
It's just the actual writing part that's difficult for me. I'm not very disciplined, and I'm easily distracted. It's rare that I complete a story that I start. I'm not usually intimidated by a blank page- I have an idea that I am eager to write and see how it goes. But it's after the idea stops seeming so amazing that I lose my passion to write. It's a really bad habit that I hope that I can break someday. I think it might help if I start by writing fanfiction and then work my way from there. We'll see how it goes... wish me luck! =)
And good luck to you, too! =)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Meta: bunch of random half-thoughts

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non linear thoughts

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late to the party as usual

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