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Let's talk about word choice.
Once upon a time there was a wank on it, but for the life of me I can't remember what the life threatening issues were (it might've been something about tentacles and Hermione), or I'd link it for your snorting things up your nose pleasure (within was the link to THE most HI-larious bad!fic I have EVER read). But wanks come around about every 7 months, 4 days, and 3.2 hours, so don't worry your noggins, kids; you'll be seeing it soon enough. Anyway, we are only concerned with the end result, which was really nothing like the following, but it's how most wanks end up looking to me, so here you go:
Person With Anime Name A: *mocks* The words you use are too big for your fics!
Person With Clever Apathetic Phrase For Name B: You just aren't smart enough to read me! [*is emo*]
FANDOM_WANK: Person With Anime Name A's wee!vocabulary! *mockety-mock*
FANDOM_WANK: Shitmanfuck, Person A's one of ours!
Person A: Yes, the words Person B uses sound too intellectual for the average intellect of her fic, mock her, mock her!
FANDOM_WANK: Wait, we're mocking people who use big words now?
FANDOM_WANK: OMG, WHAT ARE WE MOCKING? LET'S GET IT STRAIGHT, PEOPLE!
FANDOM_WANK: Or not. *mock mock mocking*, which occasionally ends in smocking, after which we all end up with cute little pinafores.
[Transcriber's Note: was that a place for emo? Did I get it right?]
So anyway the wank is not the point; the point isn't even those crazy kids at F_W, nor even their smocking needles.
The point is word choice. I felt like poking Person A with a firm needle of repartee (© Jane Eyre omg!), but I actually knew what Person A meant. Every once in a while I'll be reading a fic and I'll stumble onto a word--a word that isn't necessarily uncommon, but a word that makes me say, "Oh. I just know Author had her thesaurus out for this one," and not in a "what a way to flex your vocab" way, but in a "that was completely unnecessary; she should've used a simpler word" way. That is, the word, which wouldn't've caused me to bat an eyelash in a more sophisticated piece, draws attention like a sore thumb because the rest of the piece (conceptually, structurally, grammatically, whatever) doesn't quite...live up to the occasional bursts of elevated vocabulary.
I think it happens a lot with new writers and especially young writers and also bad writers. Some people with a smaller vocabulary might be deciding to spice up their piece with a couple of words they either a) don't know, b) understand but aren't familiar with how to use, c) rarely hear or see. The result might be a relatively even tone, voice, style of the piece, until you get to those particular words. Again, they might not be particularly complex or unusual words, just words that stand out as a little more...advanced than the rest.
But I use the thesaurus ALL THE TIME, and not just when I can't think of a word...I use it when I want to find a word with a certain flavor, and sometimes the word I choose is also "more advanced" than the word I would've chosen on my own. Also, I freely admit that I am one of those writers who has a small vocabulary and tries to spice up her writing with a thesaurus and words I might not normally use in ordinary conversation. In one fic I actually used words that I did not know (something I'd never done before. I looked them up in the dictionary and then googled around to see how they were used in various sentences before I used them, but before that, I had had no clue what the words meant).
The thing is, I think it's possible to use a word you didn't know before, or hadn't used before, or have rarely see, and not have it feel out of place, not have it break the style, tone, voice etc. What I really want to ask is, "how does one achieve this?" But I really already have my answer: I read and weigh and experiment and pick the word that feels right to me. Sometimes it's the common word I came up with right off the bat; sometimes it's the word in the thesaurus I might know but wouldn't have lighted on in weeks of thinking, sometimes it's even a word I'm a little uncertain of and have to go double-check the meaning of before I use it (and that one time, it was words I didn't know at all!)
But what I'm interested in is the attitudes towards this. Do you use a thesaurus, how much, do you like using it, does it feel like cheating, do you only use it because you can't *think* of a word, or do you use it because you have a word you could use but it just doesn't have the right flavor? Do you ever hold off on using the thesaurus because you feel it might stilt your speech? Do you use a thesaurus on purpose to stilt your speech? Do you use words you're uncertain of, or don't know? Do you ever pull back from using a word because you feel it's something whoever's reading might not know, even though it's a word is something you feel like you might use in everyday conversation? Have you ever had it happen that someone says, "Whoa, showing off your vocab!" when you used a word you thought was pretty common? Do you ever use a word *expecting* that most won't know what it means?
(When you read fanfic, do you ever come across words you don't know? Do you ever go look them up afterwards?)
All the above was just supposed to be one point under the general idea of "word choice," but I had difficulty expressing myself, sorry. I wish someone very clever would come in after me and boil these big posts down to three neat little four-lined paragraphs, because I'm way too lazy to do it.)
One of the questions I have relates to my last question about research: what about word research? How often do you research just looking for a specific word? I mentioned my plate episode, when I wanted to find another word for "ceramic" to reference what the plate is made of. Do people often go hunting for such specific words? And if you were going to write a fic with say, a big medical problem in it, is learning lots of vocabulary along the way something you do? And would you use the words you learned in the fic, even if most people wouldn't know their meanings?
Also, how concerned are you with word choice? Do you just write whatever comes out of you; do you do that but then go back to replace some words with better words, do you end "settling" when you can't find the exact word you want, how long do you hunt for the proper words?
I'm just interested in how writers approach the words they use. Which when you think about it, is really the most basic thing to writing there is, which is maybe why I have so many questions but am finding it difficult to state my point succinctly. I'd love to hear anyone's and everyone's thoughts on it.
Person With Anime Name A: *mocks* The words you use are too big for your fics!
Person With Clever Apathetic Phrase For Name B: You just aren't smart enough to read me! [*is emo*]
FANDOM_WANK: Person With Anime Name A's wee!vocabulary! *mockety-mock*
FANDOM_WANK: Shitmanfuck, Person A's one of ours!
Person A: Yes, the words Person B uses sound too intellectual for the average intellect of her fic, mock her, mock her!
FANDOM_WANK: Wait, we're mocking people who use big words now?
FANDOM_WANK: OMG, WHAT ARE WE MOCKING? LET'S GET IT STRAIGHT, PEOPLE!
FANDOM_WANK: Or not. *mock mock mocking*, which occasionally ends in smocking, after which we all end up with cute little pinafores.
[Transcriber's Note: was that a place for emo? Did I get it right?]
So anyway the wank is not the point; the point isn't even those crazy kids at F_W, nor even their smocking needles.
The point is word choice. I felt like poking Person A with a firm needle of repartee (© Jane Eyre omg!), but I actually knew what Person A meant. Every once in a while I'll be reading a fic and I'll stumble onto a word--a word that isn't necessarily uncommon, but a word that makes me say, "Oh. I just know Author had her thesaurus out for this one," and not in a "what a way to flex your vocab" way, but in a "that was completely unnecessary; she should've used a simpler word" way. That is, the word, which wouldn't've caused me to bat an eyelash in a more sophisticated piece, draws attention like a sore thumb because the rest of the piece (conceptually, structurally, grammatically, whatever) doesn't quite...live up to the occasional bursts of elevated vocabulary.
I think it happens a lot with new writers and especially young writers and also bad writers. Some people with a smaller vocabulary might be deciding to spice up their piece with a couple of words they either a) don't know, b) understand but aren't familiar with how to use, c) rarely hear or see. The result might be a relatively even tone, voice, style of the piece, until you get to those particular words. Again, they might not be particularly complex or unusual words, just words that stand out as a little more...advanced than the rest.
But I use the thesaurus ALL THE TIME, and not just when I can't think of a word...I use it when I want to find a word with a certain flavor, and sometimes the word I choose is also "more advanced" than the word I would've chosen on my own. Also, I freely admit that I am one of those writers who has a small vocabulary and tries to spice up her writing with a thesaurus and words I might not normally use in ordinary conversation. In one fic I actually used words that I did not know (something I'd never done before. I looked them up in the dictionary and then googled around to see how they were used in various sentences before I used them, but before that, I had had no clue what the words meant).
The thing is, I think it's possible to use a word you didn't know before, or hadn't used before, or have rarely see, and not have it feel out of place, not have it break the style, tone, voice etc. What I really want to ask is, "how does one achieve this?" But I really already have my answer: I read and weigh and experiment and pick the word that feels right to me. Sometimes it's the common word I came up with right off the bat; sometimes it's the word in the thesaurus I might know but wouldn't have lighted on in weeks of thinking, sometimes it's even a word I'm a little uncertain of and have to go double-check the meaning of before I use it (and that one time, it was words I didn't know at all!)
But what I'm interested in is the attitudes towards this. Do you use a thesaurus, how much, do you like using it, does it feel like cheating, do you only use it because you can't *think* of a word, or do you use it because you have a word you could use but it just doesn't have the right flavor? Do you ever hold off on using the thesaurus because you feel it might stilt your speech? Do you use a thesaurus on purpose to stilt your speech? Do you use words you're uncertain of, or don't know? Do you ever pull back from using a word because you feel it's something whoever's reading might not know, even though it's a word is something you feel like you might use in everyday conversation? Have you ever had it happen that someone says, "Whoa, showing off your vocab!" when you used a word you thought was pretty common? Do you ever use a word *expecting* that most won't know what it means?
(When you read fanfic, do you ever come across words you don't know? Do you ever go look them up afterwards?)
All the above was just supposed to be one point under the general idea of "word choice," but I had difficulty expressing myself, sorry. I wish someone very clever would come in after me and boil these big posts down to three neat little four-lined paragraphs, because I'm way too lazy to do it.)
One of the questions I have relates to my last question about research: what about word research? How often do you research just looking for a specific word? I mentioned my plate episode, when I wanted to find another word for "ceramic" to reference what the plate is made of. Do people often go hunting for such specific words? And if you were going to write a fic with say, a big medical problem in it, is learning lots of vocabulary along the way something you do? And would you use the words you learned in the fic, even if most people wouldn't know their meanings?
Also, how concerned are you with word choice? Do you just write whatever comes out of you; do you do that but then go back to replace some words with better words, do you end "settling" when you can't find the exact word you want, how long do you hunt for the proper words?
I'm just interested in how writers approach the words they use. Which when you think about it, is really the most basic thing to writing there is, which is maybe why I have so many questions but am finding it difficult to state my point succinctly. I'd love to hear anyone's and everyone's thoughts on it.
no subject
I haven't posted much at all of what I've written, but I think I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've deliberately gone to a thesaurus for a different word, as opposed to going "crud, what is that word that kind of means xxxx...." and dragging a thesaurus out for the assistance. I've had teachers ask me if I did, though, and not believe me when I told them no, that was my actual vocabulary... I suppose that could mean I have a rather large vocabulary... *shrugs* I don't think I've ever deliberately used a word for spicing purposes.
I don't like using a thesaurus, as a general rule, but if I feel it's necessary to get to where I want to be I'll do it... but I'm lucky enough that I haven't had to often. I don't worry about it stilting my speech, because if it doesn't work, I won't use it, no matter why I went looking for it, and no I won't refuse to use a word that came to me because someone might not get it. That's what a dictionary's for, if they want to know.
I won't use a word I'm not sure about, because that feels... hollow. I don't think I expect people not to know things, but then I am frequently reminded by friends of mine that I expect far too much in the area of knowledge from the general populace.
Yes, I have people look at me strangely for my vocabulary at least once or twice a month--and these are university upperclassmen!
(Absolutely I go look up anything I don't know, fanfic or pro work. No, not afterwards, right-the-hell then, because it will aggravate the hell out of me otherwise.)
Oh. Word research. That's a whole other topic... yes, if I think it's necessary I will go do word research, extensively if I have to. Yes, if I was going to write medical things, I would write in medicalese when a doctor or nurse was thinking/speaking/acting, because that's how it would be done. Another, lay character would then become confused at what was being said and it would be translated for them (that's when I call my mother and make her drag out the hospital "layperson speech guide" [yes, a manual on how doctors should talk to normal people does exist] for me). Actually, I'll do that with any professional field I attempt to write. Every section of the population has jargon, and if you don't use it correctly, the character that is part of that section won't feel natural to the reader. (Obviously, unless you're writing for ER, Scrubs, or other doctor shows, we're not talking about the principal characters here, but supporting ones there for a purpose).
Normally I go with what comes out, because I very rarely can find a better way to put it. It may have taken me some time to get there the first time, but it's generally right when it comes out.
I have kind of an opposite problem to the one you're talking about... one of my most commonly written characters is a teenaged male of sometimes questionable maturity with something of a distaste for education. He doesn't say things the way I would, and I have to rigorously edit what I write from his point of view to make certain he sounds like himself and not like me. No big-syllable words unless there's no way around it, no real lengthy exposition.... and I have to remind myself that 'no, he wouldn't know that, or get that, go be confused there!' about something that his best-friend boy genius character has just said or done. That's a fun little struggle.
There's my.... well, several cents on the matter. Questions, commentary, think I'm an idiot?
no subject
Welcome, I'm well, I'm glad you did, and at least I know you're not Eve!
I've had teachers ask me if I did, though, and not believe me when I told them no, that was my actual vocabulary
That happened to me in high school once. I asked if I could have a thesaurus for an essay test; he said yes; I ended up not using it; he refused to believe I didn't get half the words from the thesaurus. This is possibly because I wrote an essay on the Industrial Revolution as a bodice ripper, complete with *very* purple prose (I was bored!)
I don't worry about it stilting my speech, because if it doesn't work, I won't use it, no matter why I went looking for it,
I do worry about that sometimes, because every once in a while it's hard for me to tell if the word works or if it didn't mesh. Usually I'm pretty good at hearing what I write...but there's that doubt there.
I won't use a word I'm not sure about, because that feels... hollow.
Almost like cheating? I feel that way whenever I do it. And yet, sometimes I feel like there's no other way to either a. get at what I mean, or b. suit the tone of what I'm writing. I tend to do a bit of research--both looking it up and googling for sentences using the word--when I use a word I'm not sure of, but still, it feels . . . yeah, kind of cheap somehow.
yes, a manual on how doctors should talk to normal people does exist
That's so cool!
Every section of the population has jargon, and if you don't use it correctly, the character that is part of that section won't feel natural to the reader.
I feel that way too. I tend to research both the professions of and the passions of the people I'm writing. Even if I never use the weirdly technical words I learn, knowing them kind of helps me . . . adjust my brain to how they think, where they're coming from.
one of my most commonly written characters is a teenaged male of sometimes questionable maturity with something of a distaste for education. He doesn't say things the way I would, and I have to rigorously edit what I write from his point of view to make certain he sounds like himself and not like me.
Several people have pointed out how word choice can be just as much about characterization, which I think is really true, depending on the POV you're writing. In first person and a close limited third, word choice isn't going to be about your vocabulary, or that of your audience, and making sure the vocabulary in your piece is uniform and suited to the over-all tone is more about characterization than things like your use of the thesaurus.
I had some of the same issues while writing Faith in the BtVS fandom. She has a limited education and occasionally uses bad grammar ... my difficulty though was making her too stupid. She's a smart gal, just not big with the book learnin' . . . which means not getting to use some words that might be more apt.
Questions, commentary, think I'm an idiot?
Of course not; thanks for dropping by!