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Let's talk about word choice.
Once upon a time there was a wank on it, but for the life of me I can't remember what the life threatening issues were (it might've been something about tentacles and Hermione), or I'd link it for your snorting things up your nose pleasure (within was the link to THE most HI-larious bad!fic I have EVER read). But wanks come around about every 7 months, 4 days, and 3.2 hours, so don't worry your noggins, kids; you'll be seeing it soon enough. Anyway, we are only concerned with the end result, which was really nothing like the following, but it's how most wanks end up looking to me, so here you go:
Person With Anime Name A: *mocks* The words you use are too big for your fics!
Person With Clever Apathetic Phrase For Name B: You just aren't smart enough to read me! [*is emo*]
FANDOM_WANK: Person With Anime Name A's wee!vocabulary! *mockety-mock*
FANDOM_WANK: Shitmanfuck, Person A's one of ours!
Person A: Yes, the words Person B uses sound too intellectual for the average intellect of her fic, mock her, mock her!
FANDOM_WANK: Wait, we're mocking people who use big words now?
FANDOM_WANK: OMG, WHAT ARE WE MOCKING? LET'S GET IT STRAIGHT, PEOPLE!
FANDOM_WANK: Or not. *mock mock mocking*, which occasionally ends in smocking, after which we all end up with cute little pinafores.
[Transcriber's Note: was that a place for emo? Did I get it right?]
So anyway the wank is not the point; the point isn't even those crazy kids at F_W, nor even their smocking needles.
The point is word choice. I felt like poking Person A with a firm needle of repartee (© Jane Eyre omg!), but I actually knew what Person A meant. Every once in a while I'll be reading a fic and I'll stumble onto a word--a word that isn't necessarily uncommon, but a word that makes me say, "Oh. I just know Author had her thesaurus out for this one," and not in a "what a way to flex your vocab" way, but in a "that was completely unnecessary; she should've used a simpler word" way. That is, the word, which wouldn't've caused me to bat an eyelash in a more sophisticated piece, draws attention like a sore thumb because the rest of the piece (conceptually, structurally, grammatically, whatever) doesn't quite...live up to the occasional bursts of elevated vocabulary.
I think it happens a lot with new writers and especially young writers and also bad writers. Some people with a smaller vocabulary might be deciding to spice up their piece with a couple of words they either a) don't know, b) understand but aren't familiar with how to use, c) rarely hear or see. The result might be a relatively even tone, voice, style of the piece, until you get to those particular words. Again, they might not be particularly complex or unusual words, just words that stand out as a little more...advanced than the rest.
But I use the thesaurus ALL THE TIME, and not just when I can't think of a word...I use it when I want to find a word with a certain flavor, and sometimes the word I choose is also "more advanced" than the word I would've chosen on my own. Also, I freely admit that I am one of those writers who has a small vocabulary and tries to spice up her writing with a thesaurus and words I might not normally use in ordinary conversation. In one fic I actually used words that I did not know (something I'd never done before. I looked them up in the dictionary and then googled around to see how they were used in various sentences before I used them, but before that, I had had no clue what the words meant).
The thing is, I think it's possible to use a word you didn't know before, or hadn't used before, or have rarely see, and not have it feel out of place, not have it break the style, tone, voice etc. What I really want to ask is, "how does one achieve this?" But I really already have my answer: I read and weigh and experiment and pick the word that feels right to me. Sometimes it's the common word I came up with right off the bat; sometimes it's the word in the thesaurus I might know but wouldn't have lighted on in weeks of thinking, sometimes it's even a word I'm a little uncertain of and have to go double-check the meaning of before I use it (and that one time, it was words I didn't know at all!)
But what I'm interested in is the attitudes towards this. Do you use a thesaurus, how much, do you like using it, does it feel like cheating, do you only use it because you can't *think* of a word, or do you use it because you have a word you could use but it just doesn't have the right flavor? Do you ever hold off on using the thesaurus because you feel it might stilt your speech? Do you use a thesaurus on purpose to stilt your speech? Do you use words you're uncertain of, or don't know? Do you ever pull back from using a word because you feel it's something whoever's reading might not know, even though it's a word is something you feel like you might use in everyday conversation? Have you ever had it happen that someone says, "Whoa, showing off your vocab!" when you used a word you thought was pretty common? Do you ever use a word *expecting* that most won't know what it means?
(When you read fanfic, do you ever come across words you don't know? Do you ever go look them up afterwards?)
All the above was just supposed to be one point under the general idea of "word choice," but I had difficulty expressing myself, sorry. I wish someone very clever would come in after me and boil these big posts down to three neat little four-lined paragraphs, because I'm way too lazy to do it.)
One of the questions I have relates to my last question about research: what about word research? How often do you research just looking for a specific word? I mentioned my plate episode, when I wanted to find another word for "ceramic" to reference what the plate is made of. Do people often go hunting for such specific words? And if you were going to write a fic with say, a big medical problem in it, is learning lots of vocabulary along the way something you do? And would you use the words you learned in the fic, even if most people wouldn't know their meanings?
Also, how concerned are you with word choice? Do you just write whatever comes out of you; do you do that but then go back to replace some words with better words, do you end "settling" when you can't find the exact word you want, how long do you hunt for the proper words?
I'm just interested in how writers approach the words they use. Which when you think about it, is really the most basic thing to writing there is, which is maybe why I have so many questions but am finding it difficult to state my point succinctly. I'd love to hear anyone's and everyone's thoughts on it.
Person With Anime Name A: *mocks* The words you use are too big for your fics!
Person With Clever Apathetic Phrase For Name B: You just aren't smart enough to read me! [*is emo*]
FANDOM_WANK: Person With Anime Name A's wee!vocabulary! *mockety-mock*
FANDOM_WANK: Shitmanfuck, Person A's one of ours!
Person A: Yes, the words Person B uses sound too intellectual for the average intellect of her fic, mock her, mock her!
FANDOM_WANK: Wait, we're mocking people who use big words now?
FANDOM_WANK: OMG, WHAT ARE WE MOCKING? LET'S GET IT STRAIGHT, PEOPLE!
FANDOM_WANK: Or not. *mock mock mocking*, which occasionally ends in smocking, after which we all end up with cute little pinafores.
[Transcriber's Note: was that a place for emo? Did I get it right?]
So anyway the wank is not the point; the point isn't even those crazy kids at F_W, nor even their smocking needles.
The point is word choice. I felt like poking Person A with a firm needle of repartee (© Jane Eyre omg!), but I actually knew what Person A meant. Every once in a while I'll be reading a fic and I'll stumble onto a word--a word that isn't necessarily uncommon, but a word that makes me say, "Oh. I just know Author had her thesaurus out for this one," and not in a "what a way to flex your vocab" way, but in a "that was completely unnecessary; she should've used a simpler word" way. That is, the word, which wouldn't've caused me to bat an eyelash in a more sophisticated piece, draws attention like a sore thumb because the rest of the piece (conceptually, structurally, grammatically, whatever) doesn't quite...live up to the occasional bursts of elevated vocabulary.
I think it happens a lot with new writers and especially young writers and also bad writers. Some people with a smaller vocabulary might be deciding to spice up their piece with a couple of words they either a) don't know, b) understand but aren't familiar with how to use, c) rarely hear or see. The result might be a relatively even tone, voice, style of the piece, until you get to those particular words. Again, they might not be particularly complex or unusual words, just words that stand out as a little more...advanced than the rest.
But I use the thesaurus ALL THE TIME, and not just when I can't think of a word...I use it when I want to find a word with a certain flavor, and sometimes the word I choose is also "more advanced" than the word I would've chosen on my own. Also, I freely admit that I am one of those writers who has a small vocabulary and tries to spice up her writing with a thesaurus and words I might not normally use in ordinary conversation. In one fic I actually used words that I did not know (something I'd never done before. I looked them up in the dictionary and then googled around to see how they were used in various sentences before I used them, but before that, I had had no clue what the words meant).
The thing is, I think it's possible to use a word you didn't know before, or hadn't used before, or have rarely see, and not have it feel out of place, not have it break the style, tone, voice etc. What I really want to ask is, "how does one achieve this?" But I really already have my answer: I read and weigh and experiment and pick the word that feels right to me. Sometimes it's the common word I came up with right off the bat; sometimes it's the word in the thesaurus I might know but wouldn't have lighted on in weeks of thinking, sometimes it's even a word I'm a little uncertain of and have to go double-check the meaning of before I use it (and that one time, it was words I didn't know at all!)
But what I'm interested in is the attitudes towards this. Do you use a thesaurus, how much, do you like using it, does it feel like cheating, do you only use it because you can't *think* of a word, or do you use it because you have a word you could use but it just doesn't have the right flavor? Do you ever hold off on using the thesaurus because you feel it might stilt your speech? Do you use a thesaurus on purpose to stilt your speech? Do you use words you're uncertain of, or don't know? Do you ever pull back from using a word because you feel it's something whoever's reading might not know, even though it's a word is something you feel like you might use in everyday conversation? Have you ever had it happen that someone says, "Whoa, showing off your vocab!" when you used a word you thought was pretty common? Do you ever use a word *expecting* that most won't know what it means?
(When you read fanfic, do you ever come across words you don't know? Do you ever go look them up afterwards?)
All the above was just supposed to be one point under the general idea of "word choice," but I had difficulty expressing myself, sorry. I wish someone very clever would come in after me and boil these big posts down to three neat little four-lined paragraphs, because I'm way too lazy to do it.)
One of the questions I have relates to my last question about research: what about word research? How often do you research just looking for a specific word? I mentioned my plate episode, when I wanted to find another word for "ceramic" to reference what the plate is made of. Do people often go hunting for such specific words? And if you were going to write a fic with say, a big medical problem in it, is learning lots of vocabulary along the way something you do? And would you use the words you learned in the fic, even if most people wouldn't know their meanings?
Also, how concerned are you with word choice? Do you just write whatever comes out of you; do you do that but then go back to replace some words with better words, do you end "settling" when you can't find the exact word you want, how long do you hunt for the proper words?
I'm just interested in how writers approach the words they use. Which when you think about it, is really the most basic thing to writing there is, which is maybe why I have so many questions but am finding it difficult to state my point succinctly. I'd love to hear anyone's and everyone's thoughts on it.
no subject
That's exactly it with me, too. Some people say you can over-use a thesaurus. Well, I personally sometimes use a thesaurus on every other word!--so it might just be me being defensive, but I tend to think the problem is not over using it, just using it wrong.
I think my big problem with theasaurus use is akin to the problem with spell-check--people tend to get lazy with and because of it.
Yeah. And to me, if I'm really that unsure of what a word means, it requires more than just looking it up in a dictionary. There are certain ways most words are used, and a certain way a lot of phrases are put together... such that even if the word you're using is *technically* correct, it still may come out sounding awkward. Sometimes that can create a really great effect--one book I ready managed to use so many big and not-what-you-would-think-fits-there words that almost every word really jumped off the page and felt new. But my suspicion is the writer in question knew not only the meaning of all those words but precisely how they were generally used--because only then can you really began to twist them, I think.
I sometimes have whole passages just appear in my mind out of nowhere, but once they're written, stringing them together and finding the right words that still suit the mood/tone/etc. can be like pulling teeth
It's so funny how that works. I write in bursts. A paragraph or so will come to me, and then I have to sit there. Sometimes I go elsewhere. Sometimes I pace. Sometimes I take a bath. Then I can come back and write another burst. Just out of curiousity, do you write all those passages first and then go string them together later--i.e., write non-linearly?
I have gotten the "Whoa! Holy GRE words!" comments in conversation before over words that I didn't think were any big deal, and it kind of weirded me out, to be honest.
That happens to me in conversation too. Also over IM. Which is yeah, kinda weird, because I really do have a somewhat limited vocab for someone of my education and abilities. What's more disconcerting is learning that someone didn't know what the words you were using meant and they didn't tell you. I find it frustrating, because why would I be talking if I didn't want anyone to understand me?
And aww. I hope your achy-super-tense-neck-migrainey thing went away! *digitally rubs your shoulders*
I should get a badge. Am now proud and confident user of the term "emo."
no subject
I tend to think the problem is not over using it, just using it wrong.
~*~
it requires more than just looking it up in a dictionary.
I think you're exactly right--there's nothing wrong with a thesaurus as long as you use it responsibly. (Now I sound like an After-School Special. Heh.) I think looking it up in the dictionary is a bare minimum of what you should do to double-check, though, and with the worst of the thesaurus abusers, even that very basic check isn't happening.
It's so funny how that works. I write in bursts. A paragraph or so will come to me, and then I have to sit there. Sometimes I go elsewhere. Sometimes I pace. Sometimes I take a bath. Then I can come back and write another burst. Just out of curiousity, do you write all those passages first and then go string them together later--i.e., write non-linearly?
I write a lot in bursts, too--with Carry On, I had the closing passage from Liam's father's POV as this huge blow to the back of my head within about 15 seconds, and I sort of scurried to write it down and build up to it. I absolutely do write non-linearly--I tend to jot down the passages that come as they come because I'm afraid if I don't I won't have them, and then I go back and put it all together with all the stuff that happens in between. Actually, now that I think of it, I don't think I've ever sat down and said, "I'm writing now" and written something start-to-finish that way. My brain objects. I envy people who can follow an outline and go through that way, but my brain just looks at it and goes "No structure! Don't oppress me!!" and then goes off and does its thing. :)
I find it frustrating, because why would I be talking if I didn't want anyone to understand me?
It is really frustrating, and it's also really strange to me, because I tend to speak up and say, "Excuse, please?" if I haven't understood something--if they're going to the trouble of speaking, the least I can do is comprehend. Although I do know that people sometimes think it's rude to ask for clarification--I've run into that view here and there, so maybe it's all in how people are taught conversational flows and such. Hmm.