![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Entry tags:
SPOILERS FOR HARRY POTTER
QUESTIONS:
Does someone want to explain the whole, Voldemort has Harry's blood thing? Got the part about Harry being a Horcrux, and needing to sacrifice himself to live, and all the stuff about the wands, but didn't get the thing about part of Lily's sacrifice being transferred to Voldemort?
Did anyone spend a long time thinking the Malfoys were all dead?
Did anyone else find the epilogue kind of chilling?
Did anyone find the part where the trio were on the run, camping out in different spots, quite slow and a bit drag-y? Especially while Ron was off being a prat?
Who had the Lupins slated for death the moment their baby was born healthy?
How many times did you cry, and at what parts?
How many times did you laugh, or, uh. Possibly cheer or whoop? At what parts?
How long did it take you to read?
Phineas says, "Remember the part the Slytherins played!" What part did they play? We see Slugghorn running about helping--is there a suggestion, or did I just miss it, that the Syltherins who left when McGonagall said to prepare to fight, helped muster the forces of thestrals and families and whatnot?
*
OVERALL:
I loved this book. A lot.
To say the least, there was a lot of hype leading up to it. To me almost all of that seems justified now. Not the people being dickheads parts of the hype, but the general excitement.
As for myself, I had my own set of expectations. I've always liked HP. I've always liked it quite a bit, actually. And there were certain aspects I could get fannish about, but not the 'verse as a whole. I just thought the books were good, and fun, and entertaining, but certain things sat wrong with me and I couldn't ever see myself really dying of love for any of it. That changed about eight months ago. Something clicked in my head, and since then I've been pretty much mad for them. Some of you have seen me drooling over Harry/Draco but it wasn't just that; it was all of it.
The thing that clicked was I just started seeing the books in a different light. I started, uh, interrogating them from a different perspective. And I started thinking about what it all meant, what it would mean for book 7, where JKR would go with all this. And I formed a lot of ideas and theories about not just what was going to happen but what had to happen (particularly thematically). If they didn't happen, the could still be fun nice adventure books, but pretty much the way I had started to view the books would collapse. I could still hold that view, of course, but I'd have to discount book 7. It would've been a disappointment.
I had meant to write these ideas down, several large proofs about what I thought would happen and why. I wish I had now just for the pleasure of looking at them and saying, "OMG I was so smart! So right!" But that's just me liking to gloat--not over anyone--to just gloat for the sake of gloating. But mostly, I'm just happy the things I needed to happen for this world to work for me not only happened but happened and then some. Most of the points I wanted to be made were very explicit. Stuff like:
-Snape loving Lily. Snape turning from Voldemort because Voldemort was hunting Lily. Snape being Dumbledore's because of Lily. Dumbledore trusting Snape because he knew the power of Snape's love. Snape's love being a weapon against Voldemort.
-Harry having to sacrifice himself. Harry having to willingly die in order to live. Harry's sacrifice mirroring Lily's sacrifice, Harry's sacrifice defeating Voldemort, Harry living.
-Races uniting at the end, goblins and house elves being instrumental to getting Horcruxes/fighting Voldemort.
The things that I thought would really be important that weren't there was I thought Harry would have to have some big moment of forgiving and even loving the human part of Voldemort, the part that was still Tom Riddle, in order to defeat him. But the thing about Harry having to sacrifice himself in order to live took care of a lot of the themes I wanted to be covered on that front. I also thought we'd see a little more in House cooperation (namely the admission Slytherin isn't all bad, in more than just a cursory way).
(The latter would be why I find the epilogue chilling. HP is about 4 generations: Dumbledore's, Riddle's, James Potter's, and Harry Potters, and each of those generations has parallels and repetitions that circle, and circle, and circle. What it looked like to me on Platform 9 3/4 was just more history repeating: Ron telling his kid to give Draco's kid a tough time [omg. Draco's kid. *is momentarily manaical with glee!!!*], and there's still prejudice against Slytherin. There's a bit at the end which is maybe supposed to be nice, with Harry telling young Albus any House is alright, with that really amazing and to me completely unexpected tribute payed to Severus Snape. But it's told in whispers, so easily forgotten. Everything seems so much the same as it was in that scene on the train with James, Lily, Severus, and Sirius. As it must have been with Riddle, as it must have been with Albus. I can't figure out whether JKR meant to do that or not--I was so happy just before the epilogue and then the epilogue itself SENT CHILLS DOWN MY SPINE.
Oh, and I like how much happens at King's Cross, all that, too. I wrote a paper in undergrad about the symbolism of a train station in a Pynchon book. Anyway, that bit with Albus was in dreamscape!King's Cross, the Lily,Petunia fight at the station, the end with Harry and kidlets. Which just adds SO MUCH to Voldemort at the train station in movie 5. COOL.)
I have a lot more to say, but now I'm kinda splooging everywhere so I leave you with this.
ETA: I also thought there would be more about the inter-racial cooperation than there was. Some of the stuff about goblins still made me uncomfortable, like Harry wasn't really being fair.
Also, I fucking love this so hard I don't know what to do with myself now.
ETA2: Stoney linked to this; I link as well since it was exactly what popped into my head when I read that epilogue. LMAO.
Does someone want to explain the whole, Voldemort has Harry's blood thing? Got the part about Harry being a Horcrux, and needing to sacrifice himself to live, and all the stuff about the wands, but didn't get the thing about part of Lily's sacrifice being transferred to Voldemort?
Did anyone spend a long time thinking the Malfoys were all dead?
Did anyone else find the epilogue kind of chilling?
Did anyone find the part where the trio were on the run, camping out in different spots, quite slow and a bit drag-y? Especially while Ron was off being a prat?
Who had the Lupins slated for death the moment their baby was born healthy?
How many times did you cry, and at what parts?
How many times did you laugh, or, uh. Possibly cheer or whoop? At what parts?
How long did it take you to read?
Phineas says, "Remember the part the Slytherins played!" What part did they play? We see Slugghorn running about helping--is there a suggestion, or did I just miss it, that the Syltherins who left when McGonagall said to prepare to fight, helped muster the forces of thestrals and families and whatnot?
*
OVERALL:
I loved this book. A lot.
To say the least, there was a lot of hype leading up to it. To me almost all of that seems justified now. Not the people being dickheads parts of the hype, but the general excitement.
As for myself, I had my own set of expectations. I've always liked HP. I've always liked it quite a bit, actually. And there were certain aspects I could get fannish about, but not the 'verse as a whole. I just thought the books were good, and fun, and entertaining, but certain things sat wrong with me and I couldn't ever see myself really dying of love for any of it. That changed about eight months ago. Something clicked in my head, and since then I've been pretty much mad for them. Some of you have seen me drooling over Harry/Draco but it wasn't just that; it was all of it.
The thing that clicked was I just started seeing the books in a different light. I started, uh, interrogating them from a different perspective. And I started thinking about what it all meant, what it would mean for book 7, where JKR would go with all this. And I formed a lot of ideas and theories about not just what was going to happen but what had to happen (particularly thematically). If they didn't happen, the could still be fun nice adventure books, but pretty much the way I had started to view the books would collapse. I could still hold that view, of course, but I'd have to discount book 7. It would've been a disappointment.
I had meant to write these ideas down, several large proofs about what I thought would happen and why. I wish I had now just for the pleasure of looking at them and saying, "OMG I was so smart! So right!" But that's just me liking to gloat--not over anyone--to just gloat for the sake of gloating. But mostly, I'm just happy the things I needed to happen for this world to work for me not only happened but happened and then some. Most of the points I wanted to be made were very explicit. Stuff like:
-Snape loving Lily. Snape turning from Voldemort because Voldemort was hunting Lily. Snape being Dumbledore's because of Lily. Dumbledore trusting Snape because he knew the power of Snape's love. Snape's love being a weapon against Voldemort.
-Harry having to sacrifice himself. Harry having to willingly die in order to live. Harry's sacrifice mirroring Lily's sacrifice, Harry's sacrifice defeating Voldemort, Harry living.
-Races uniting at the end, goblins and house elves being instrumental to getting Horcruxes/fighting Voldemort.
The things that I thought would really be important that weren't there was I thought Harry would have to have some big moment of forgiving and even loving the human part of Voldemort, the part that was still Tom Riddle, in order to defeat him. But the thing about Harry having to sacrifice himself in order to live took care of a lot of the themes I wanted to be covered on that front. I also thought we'd see a little more in House cooperation (namely the admission Slytherin isn't all bad, in more than just a cursory way).
(The latter would be why I find the epilogue chilling. HP is about 4 generations: Dumbledore's, Riddle's, James Potter's, and Harry Potters, and each of those generations has parallels and repetitions that circle, and circle, and circle. What it looked like to me on Platform 9 3/4 was just more history repeating: Ron telling his kid to give Draco's kid a tough time [omg. Draco's kid. *is momentarily manaical with glee!!!*], and there's still prejudice against Slytherin. There's a bit at the end which is maybe supposed to be nice, with Harry telling young Albus any House is alright, with that really amazing and to me completely unexpected tribute payed to Severus Snape. But it's told in whispers, so easily forgotten. Everything seems so much the same as it was in that scene on the train with James, Lily, Severus, and Sirius. As it must have been with Riddle, as it must have been with Albus. I can't figure out whether JKR meant to do that or not--I was so happy just before the epilogue and then the epilogue itself SENT CHILLS DOWN MY SPINE.
Oh, and I like how much happens at King's Cross, all that, too. I wrote a paper in undergrad about the symbolism of a train station in a Pynchon book. Anyway, that bit with Albus was in dreamscape!King's Cross, the Lily,Petunia fight at the station, the end with Harry and kidlets. Which just adds SO MUCH to Voldemort at the train station in movie 5. COOL.)
I have a lot more to say, but now I'm kinda splooging everywhere so I leave you with this.
ETA: I also thought there would be more about the inter-racial cooperation than there was. Some of the stuff about goblins still made me uncomfortable, like Harry wasn't really being fair.
Also, I fucking love this so hard I don't know what to do with myself now.
ETA2: Stoney linked to this; I link as well since it was exactly what popped into my head when I read that epilogue. LMAO.
no subject
I think Rowling tried not to make it all about redemption and resolution. With the inter-specis thing, I think she made a point, from as early as SS, to make the other species as real and different from humans as she could. I left it off my little glee session, but I loved Bill's little chat with the Harry about Griphook and Goblins. What he said really stuck with me: "Goblin notions of ownership, payment, and repayment are not the same as human ones [...] We are talking about a different breed of being." It reminded me of Hermione's fruitless battle to free the House Elves and of Firenze and the centaurs. I think that Rowling really tried to make them seperate and so we're not meant to think that Harry is necessarily *wrong* about the way that he thinks of the goblins, but not right either. We get Hermione on one end of the spectrum and Harry on the other.
I'm not really surpised that there wasn't more cooperation from the other species because from as early as PoA we've been told that this is a Wizard's War. The centaurs saw what was coming and wouldn't get involved. That was parroted by the Goblins and the house elves are only involved when they are ordered to. Except at the end and I'm not sure where that came from.
I read the end as a happily ever after from Rowling to the fans. Everything worked out and well into the future our heroes are happy. The only reason that I didn't like the epilogue as much was that it was too much. Too Mary Sue fan writing a cotton candy sweet ending for Harry Potter. They all grew up, married each other and had kids. But what you've pointed out makes a certain kind of sense. They *are* repeating themselves -- as Dumbledore as Riddle as Snape as Harry. But life is cyclical and nothing ever really does change, does it? The Malfoy's betray Voldemort for the same reasons that got them involved with him in the first place ... dangerously stupid self-interest. In the end it's that desire for their son's safety that leads to that betrayal. They aren't redeemed in the end because they are not interested in redemption, never were, never will be and given the chance I can see the potential for Draco to follow his parents path.
I'm kinda all over the place as well! I LOVED this book!!
no subject
She did a good job. And just as goblins understand commerce differently, house elves understand freedom differently.
If you want to get serious about it it parallels human rights issues. For instance, in some other countries, is trying to get equal rights for women just forcing our culture onto someone else's? But if the inequality is severe enough, shouldn't ever human be given a chance to be free? Where do we draw the line? Yada yada.
So Harry, middle of the spectrum yes, neither wrong nor right. The trouble is, I agree with Hermione--not about enforcing my beliefs on beings I might not have the capacity to understand, but about giving each of them a chance. If there's one elf like Dobby who's enslaved, it's worth it to do what you can to make sure elves can get freedom if they want it. Not all goblins are going to be the same. It doesn't seem to dawn on Harry or even Bill that there can be exceptions to the rule, just as even though Harry, Ron, Hagrid and many others know about Dobby's longing for freedom, they think no other elves could ever want to be free. The other races are just "separate" and so it's okay to believe whatever about them is convenient.
we've been told that this is a Wizard's War.
Yes, but the point is it's not a wizard's war. Voldemort employs giants and I believe Dumbledore says Voldie's going to make a move for the goblins, too, though he doesn't. Centaurs are targeted by the Ministry. In fact, with shit like this going down, it could never touch only just wizards.
The whole reason centaurs and goblins don't want to get involved, I thought, is not because what other species do does not affect them, but because wizards have treated them badly in the past. Wizards have acted as though other species are lesser, so now other species behave as if wizards are lesser, not worth getting involved with.
But life is cyclical and nothing ever really does change, does it?
Yeah. That's why I found the end chilling. You can save the fucking world, and it's still not any different. It's like AtS. Only with uh, less sex and craziness. But just as many pregnancies, apparently.