lettered | SPOILERS FOR HARRY POTTER

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SPOILERS FOR HARRY POTTER

QUESTIONS:

Does someone want to explain the whole, Voldemort has Harry's blood thing? Got the part about Harry being a Horcrux, and needing to sacrifice himself to live, and all the stuff about the wands, but didn't get the thing about part of Lily's sacrifice being transferred to Voldemort?

Did anyone spend a long time thinking the Malfoys were all dead?

Did anyone else find the epilogue kind of chilling?

Did anyone find the part where the trio were on the run, camping out in different spots, quite slow and a bit drag-y? Especially while Ron was off being a prat?

Who had the Lupins slated for death the moment their baby was born healthy?

How many times did you cry, and at what parts?

How many times did you laugh, or, uh. Possibly cheer or whoop? At what parts?

How long did it take you to read?

Phineas says, "Remember the part the Slytherins played!" What part did they play? We see Slugghorn running about helping--is there a suggestion, or did I just miss it, that the Syltherins who left when McGonagall said to prepare to fight, helped muster the forces of thestrals and families and whatnot?

*

OVERALL:

I loved this book. A lot.

To say the least, there was a lot of hype leading up to it. To me almost all of that seems justified now. Not the people being dickheads parts of the hype, but the general excitement.

As for myself, I had my own set of expectations. I've always liked HP. I've always liked it quite a bit, actually. And there were certain aspects I could get fannish about, but not the 'verse as a whole. I just thought the books were good, and fun, and entertaining, but certain things sat wrong with me and I couldn't ever see myself really dying of love for any of it. That changed about eight months ago. Something clicked in my head, and since then I've been pretty much mad for them. Some of you have seen me drooling over Harry/Draco but it wasn't just that; it was all of it.

The thing that clicked was I just started seeing the books in a different light. I started, uh, interrogating them from a different perspective. And I started thinking about what it all meant, what it would mean for book 7, where JKR would go with all this. And I formed a lot of ideas and theories about not just what was going to happen but what had to happen (particularly thematically). If they didn't happen, the could still be fun nice adventure books, but pretty much the way I had started to view the books would collapse. I could still hold that view, of course, but I'd have to discount book 7. It would've been a disappointment.

I had meant to write these ideas down, several large proofs about what I thought would happen and why. I wish I had now just for the pleasure of looking at them and saying, "OMG I was so smart! So right!" But that's just me liking to gloat--not over anyone--to just gloat for the sake of gloating. But mostly, I'm just happy the things I needed to happen for this world to work for me not only happened but happened and then some. Most of the points I wanted to be made were very explicit. Stuff like:

-Snape loving Lily. Snape turning from Voldemort because Voldemort was hunting Lily. Snape being Dumbledore's because of Lily. Dumbledore trusting Snape because he knew the power of Snape's love. Snape's love being a weapon against Voldemort.
-Harry having to sacrifice himself. Harry having to willingly die in order to live. Harry's sacrifice mirroring Lily's sacrifice, Harry's sacrifice defeating Voldemort, Harry living.
-Races uniting at the end, goblins and house elves being instrumental to getting Horcruxes/fighting Voldemort.

The things that I thought would really be important that weren't there was I thought Harry would have to have some big moment of forgiving and even loving the human part of Voldemort, the part that was still Tom Riddle, in order to defeat him. But the thing about Harry having to sacrifice himself in order to live took care of a lot of the themes I wanted to be covered on that front. I also thought we'd see a little more in House cooperation (namely the admission Slytherin isn't all bad, in more than just a cursory way).

(The latter would be why I find the epilogue chilling. HP is about 4 generations: Dumbledore's, Riddle's, James Potter's, and Harry Potters, and each of those generations has parallels and repetitions that circle, and circle, and circle. What it looked like to me on Platform 9 3/4 was just more history repeating: Ron telling his kid to give Draco's kid a tough time [omg. Draco's kid. *is momentarily manaical with glee!!!*], and there's still prejudice against Slytherin. There's a bit at the end which is maybe supposed to be nice, with Harry telling young Albus any House is alright, with that really amazing and to me completely unexpected tribute payed to Severus Snape. But it's told in whispers, so easily forgotten. Everything seems so much the same as it was in that scene on the train with James, Lily, Severus, and Sirius. As it must have been with Riddle, as it must have been with Albus. I can't figure out whether JKR meant to do that or not--I was so happy just before the epilogue and then the epilogue itself SENT CHILLS DOWN MY SPINE.

Oh, and I like how much happens at King's Cross, all that, too. I wrote a paper in undergrad about the symbolism of a train station in a Pynchon book. Anyway, that bit with Albus was in dreamscape!King's Cross, the Lily,Petunia fight at the station, the end with Harry and kidlets. Which just adds SO MUCH to Voldemort at the train station in movie 5. COOL.)

I have a lot more to say, but now I'm kinda splooging everywhere so I leave you with this.

ETA: I also thought there would be more about the inter-racial cooperation than there was. Some of the stuff about goblins still made me uncomfortable, like Harry wasn't really being fair.

Also, I fucking love this so hard I don't know what to do with myself now.

ETA2: Stoney linked to this; I link as well since it was exactly what popped into my head when I read that epilogue. LMAO.

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

answer to Voldemort/Harry's blood: in GoF when Wormtail brings Voldemort back to power, he uses Harry's blood (forearm) and the bone of Tom Riddle Sr. and his own hand. Dumbledore was all excited when he realized Voldemort had Harry's (Lily's) blood in him.

Slytherins played a part with Severus giving his life to aid the Order.

Blood: yeah, I got that, but I didn't get the part where Dumbledore says, "Lily's protection inside both of you! He tethered you to life while he lives!" (709)

I don't get that. If he just means that Voldemort sustains Lily's protection so that Harry can't die as long as Voldemort lives--why doesn't Harry die when Voldie dies? Harry asks that next but Dumbly and JKR neatly avoid it.

As long as Lily's protection exists, it means Harry can't be completely killed. It's the White Hat version of the Horcrux/soul issue, is what I got.

Once Harry comes back, with a soul intact and the connection between him and Voldemort gone (in his body) Voldemort can be killed.

I guess I'm slow. Either that or it's pointless to make "magic" stand to reason. I just... there's the horcrux connection, which does get eliminated. But there's the blood connection which is not eliminated.

I liked the book when I read it. Which was only hours ago. But, over the course of those hours, I'm more and more annoyed with it.

I think JKR took the easy route of killing off a lot of less significant characters, emotionally manipulating the audience, rather than taking the risk of killing off a main or important character in a meaningful way. As things stand, Lupin and Tonks are just part of a body count. We don't actually see their deaths. Which makes it almost meaningless. Frankly, I expected Ron to die, saving Harry or Hermione. I'm not sorry he survived, but that one death would have had far more power than all the deaths that actually happened, combined.

And while I adored Snape's history, and flat-out loved that Harry actually named his son after him--Albus Severus Potter!--I hated the way Snape died. It seemed like an afterthought, passive.

Honestly, I thought there was so much character evolution for both Snape and Draco in HBP, and I wanted that paid off, and for Draco, it wasn't, while for Snape the payoff was all posthumous. I would have been happier if Snape had been a bigger part of the book, and the Malfoys (all of whom clearly realized they'd chosen the wrong side in the very first chapter) had been a lot more active on the side of good. Now, that would have been a tale of redemption worth reading.

The more I think about it, the more disappointed I am in the book. But, that's just me.

Honestly, I thought there was so much character evolution for both Snape and Draco in HBP, and I wanted that paid off, and for Draco, it wasn't, while for Snape the payoff was all posthumous.

I can so totally see your point, especially with Draco. Draco was a bit schizophrenic, vacillitating between I am a bad ass and will bring Harry Potter in alive to looking like a kid lost in a very violent and unexpected nightmare. I alternately loathed and pitied him. In the end, I think that he was supposed to act as the sign of Harry's greater morality. He was the thing that Harry forgave in place of Voldemort. It shows how he is like his mother, forgiving and accepting. Although, we do still get to see how much Harry is like his father, hot headed and self absorbed.

Lupin and Tonks are just part of a body count. We don't actually see their deaths. Which makes it almost meaningless.

Absolutely true! I felt sad that they died, but I was more affected by Fred's death and Colin Creevy. Colin because of what I remembered of him from the earlier books.

I hated the way Snape died. It seemed like an afterthought, passive.

Unfortunately, I think that may have been the point. That was the way that Voldemort treated things that he considered beneath his notice and I think that the whole "who owns the wand" thing was, to him, a minor miss step and he corrected it. It reminded me a great deal of Cedric's death. Totally unexpected and unneccessary. "Kill the spare."

But, I'm waiting too for the shine to wear off and for me to start discovering things I don't like. Overall, I am extremely happy with the book. Kind of on a cloud.

Some of the stuff about goblins still made me uncomfortable, like Harry wasn't really being fair.

I think Rowling tried not to make it all about redemption and resolution. With the inter-specis thing, I think she made a point, from as early as SS, to make the other species as real and different from humans as she could. I left it off my little glee session, but I loved Bill's little chat with the Harry about Griphook and Goblins. What he said really stuck with me: "Goblin notions of ownership, payment, and repayment are not the same as human ones [...] We are talking about a different breed of being." It reminded me of Hermione's fruitless battle to free the House Elves and of Firenze and the centaurs. I think that Rowling really tried to make them seperate and so we're not meant to think that Harry is necessarily *wrong* about the way that he thinks of the goblins, but not right either. We get Hermione on one end of the spectrum and Harry on the other.

I'm not really surpised that there wasn't more cooperation from the other species because from as early as PoA we've been told that this is a Wizard's War. The centaurs saw what was coming and wouldn't get involved. That was parroted by the Goblins and the house elves are only involved when they are ordered to. Except at the end and I'm not sure where that came from.

I read the end as a happily ever after from Rowling to the fans. Everything worked out and well into the future our heroes are happy. The only reason that I didn't like the epilogue as much was that it was too much. Too Mary Sue fan writing a cotton candy sweet ending for Harry Potter. They all grew up, married each other and had kids. But what you've pointed out makes a certain kind of sense. They *are* repeating themselves -- as Dumbledore as Riddle as Snape as Harry. But life is cyclical and nothing ever really does change, does it? The Malfoy's betray Voldemort for the same reasons that got them involved with him in the first place ... dangerously stupid self-interest. In the end it's that desire for their son's safety that leads to that betrayal. They aren't redeemed in the end because they are not interested in redemption, never were, never will be and given the chance I can see the potential for Draco to follow his parents path.

I'm kinda all over the place as well! I LOVED this book!!

I loved this book to little bitty pieces, but I'm still not sure how much of it was the book and how much was nostalgia. I mean, I've been reading these books since I bought the first one at a school book fair when I was nine years old, so DH would have to be truly awful to keep me from sighing happily over every reference to the past six books. (Side note: it may have been completely gratuitous, but I loved Hermione going through just about every book she's ever mentioned and deciding what to pack.)

At the moment, I think that the book really is great, that it's creepy and funny and touching. I even think JKR's prose style has improved. I loved the final battle, and I love the way so much of Lily's journey through Hogwarts is like Harry's journey inverted (the train scene paralleling Harry's meeting Ron, James talking about Slytherin and echoing what Malfoy said about Hufflepuff in the first book, and so on). The epilogue . . . doesn't bother me as much I think it bothers other people, but it's not my favorite moment by a long shot. I want to know what everyone's doing with their lives besides having babies, for one thing. But your idea with the cyclical generations is extremely interesting and really does make that scene more disturbing, now that I think about it.

I also agree with you about wanting to see more about Slytherin. I love to death the idea of Snape as Slytherin's redemption--but then we have that line of Dumbledore's about how they do the Sorting too young, which, what, means that Snape has been secretly a Gryffindor all along? That's not all that inclusive.

Anyway, questions:

Did anyone find the part where the trio were on the run, camping out in different spots, quite slow and a bit drag-y? Especially while Ron was off being a prat?
I don't think it was pleasant to read, but I didn't find it drag-y. I mean, it's all completely blurred together in my head right now, but I got a general impression of slow, relentless misery, which I think was really important to build up atmosphere for the climax.

How many times did you cry, and at what parts?
Oh, god. I started with Hedwig dying, and I think I did it again at every single death/maiming scene. I cried when Dobby died, and I didn't even like him that much.

How many times did you laugh, or, uh. Possibly cheer or whoop? At what parts?
If I hadn't been on the train when I read it, badass!Neville would have made me cheer a ridiculous amount.

How long did it take you to read?
All together, probably about six or seven hours, but I got interrupted a lot, so it ended up taking me most of the day.

Well, I loved this, so, I have "but but but!"s to say.

I'm not sure I feel like killing off a main character is really the "harder" route. As you say, Ron dying would've had the power of all the other deaths combined. I think that's true, but...to me that's just as easy. As in, the only way to create an impact is to kill someone we love the most, whereas I don't think that's true. There's this trend in literature these days where if something is sadder, harder to accept, more difficult to stomach, it's better, and I just--don't feel that way.

I always thought it wouldn't really make sense for any one of the trio to die. To me these books need to end happy and it can't if any one of those three are dead. I know what you mean about not even getting to see Lupin or Tonks die, but we saw several death scenes already, and I thought Tonks and Lupin's almost-just-mentioned-in-passing demise was meant to show how...not everyone gets a tragic death scene. In war people just die and there's a body count at the end, where there are so many that they're just one among many, no matter how much you know and love them.

I rather thought Snape would die as a hero, too, but as seraphcelene says below I think that's part of the point. Not just because Voldemort killed people as afterthoughts, but also because it seems fitting to me that he never got a chance. At anything, really. His life was a lie. I would've liked to have seen Harry interact with him once he knew the truth, though. That might make me a Snape/Harry shipper despite all my better judgment.

I can't decide what to think about Draco. I did feel like a promise was made in HBP, but maybe breaking that promise proves a point. Some people change--Snape changed, Pettigrew had a moment of mercy--but some people never will. And the Malfoys don't. They only care for each other and are only concerned for each other. And in the long run, their selfishness isn't Evil. Draco's small and petty but he's pretty unwilling to actually hurt anyone.

Then again, the reason I really, really love Draco is...he comes off as small, but really all people are the same size. Um. I have more Thoughts about this; I need to stew.

Thanks for sharing your opinions--I don't mean to be all no you're wrong!, I just wanted to share my thoughts.

I am a bad ass and will bring Harry Potter in alive

I don't think so. His whole bring Harry in alive thing was only because he was a kid lost in a violent and unexpected nightmare. Bringing in Harry was something he thought he could do, because he wouldn't have to kill anyone or anything like that; turning in people is something Draco's good at. And Draco is still young enough to think that maybe if Voldie got HP the Malfoys would be alright, and Voldie would let them go or stop hurting them. Him trying to bring in Harry was the most naive, immature, bewildered childish thing he could have tried at that point, imo.

he was supposed to act as the sign of Harry's greater morality. He was the thing that Harry forgave in place of Voldemort.

Maybe. One of the things that used to bother me so much about HP was it seemed like Harry did have a "greater morality". A kind of, he knows what's right, and he always does the right thing.

But luckily this can be read as a flaw in Harry, even if JKR doesn't mean it that way. In the end, he still sees Malfoy as smaller than him. And the epilogue suggests to me he still sees Slytherin as lesser.

All together, probably about six or seven hours, but I got interrupted a lot, so it ended up taking me most of the day.

Dude, I must be the slowest reader on LJ. Everyone seems to have read it in five to seven hours. Well, it took me eleven. I read at about 75 pages per hours. Eleven was what I was expecting and eleven was what I got. I am floored by how fast people read around here.

I can see your point about Draco. He's back at school in an environment that he's comfortable with, he's got his henchmen and he's going to snag Harry Potter and save his family. But it doesn't quite fit in my head because Draco had the opportunity to do all of that. When Narcissa asked him to identify the trio at Malfoy Manor he could have and didn't. What changed between then and now. The Malfoy's position with Voldemort has been steadily declining and I don't get the impression that Draco isn't aware of the dangerous situation that he's put his family into. So, why wait to turn in the Trio when it could mean the reinstatement of his family honor and by extension their safety/security?

One of the things that used to bother me so much about HP was it seemed like Harry did have a "greater morality". A kind of, he knows what's right, and he always does the right thing.

Absolutely. Harry was never my favorite character for all of those reasons. Although, I think that this really was supposed to be a flaw as much as his strength, it was an annoying habit. I think that because Rowling made it a sort of flaw, he was easier for me to deal with. I always loved Ron and Hermione because they were there even though they didn't have to be.

Slytherin gets painted as the villian, "there wasn't a witch or wizard who went bad that wasn't in Slytherin", and never really changes position. But here is Harry saving Malfoy and saying, okay, even though you are bad, you do not deserve to do and so I will save you.

Wit the exception of HBP I never really cared about Draco, so I haven't really thought of him all that much, so I'm sure that I'm missing loads. I'll be excited to read the entire series once I get the first three books in hardback. (I know ... I know... but I came late to the party.)

Heh, I think your way might be better. I'm always impatient to see how books end, but I don't want to skip anything, so I end up devouring the book as fast as I can. You probably got much more out of it than I did, since you took your time reading. I'm rereading it again now to pick up on the things I missed, and I'm trying to go slower.

Firstly, I loved this book. Took me a total of nine hours to read it; I was interrupted by the overwhelming need for sleep.
I think the point about not all deaths having the big tragic death scene is the point: sometimes heroes die alone, and unrecognized. The way of war is that people die in many ways..all sad and tragic, but often unnoticed by others.
I was really worried that she was actually going to kill Harry; I would have been quite devastated by that, and I think it would have been equally hard if Hermione or Ron had died..it would have felt to me like a betrayal of the spirit of the books somehow.
I'm glad they got the happy ending; the epilogue to me shows that they defeated the enemy, but they're not perfect, and there will still be problems in the world caused by pettiness and misunderstanding. The fight will go on.

I too loved that scene in the OotP movie, probably one of the best for me as I didn't like OotP!movie very much. Voldemort just wiggling his head around, dressed in a dark suit, was *uncanny* and *scary,* not because he went all Evil Overlord Wizardy on everyone, but because he just looked ... demented.

It reminded me of those scenes in Adrian Lyne's Jacob's Ladder where the hapless Vietnam War vet has these nightmare visions of the man with no face just *waggling* his head at top speed, seen through car windows, in totally unusual places. Creepy!

The "King's Cross" chapter really "made" the book for me.

That's a good point about the goblins - I didn't realize it till now, but did *Neville* end up with the goblin sword? That represents a major double-cross, and I would think the goblins would want some serious revenge.

It took me 14.

Talking to someone today who said Neville got the sword from the Sorting Hat. Which makes sense--the Hat gave it to Harry in CoS, not because the sword fits in there or anything but because the Hat gives it up in times of great need. Neville had need, so...

I actually thought Voldie at the train station was creepy because it had that "he is among you now" feeling to it.

Haven't seen Jacob's Ladder--sounds cool!

It's a really interesting movie. This Vietnam vet works in the post office, but keeps seeing things, really disturbing things that he can't explain. He contacts some of his old war buddies, and finds something more disturbing than he can almost believe. If you like weird and unusual films, you might enjoy it. (It is kind of gory and graphic in parts, though.)

What changed between then and now.

What changed is Draco's more panicked than ever. I think he didn't identify Harry at the Manor because he couldn't decide what he was more afraid of: saying it's not Potter and so letting Potter get away, or saying it is Potter and having Voldemort descend on them immediately. He just doesn't want to have to deal. By the time Hogwarts is falling, he realizes he MUST deal.

And now that I think about it, on the subject of dealing--Draco always talks big, but rarely acts. He taunts Harry all through school but always acts surprised whenever Harry hurts him. He tries to kill Dumbledore for a year but when it finally comes to it can't go through with it. I can see Draco going through all the trouble to catch Harry, and then when he has him not quite know what to do with him.

I love how Draco kept reminding them Harry needed to be alive. I think it was less because that's what Voldemort wanted and more because he didn't want Harry killed, whether because Draco's too wimpy to be responsible for murder or there's something in him too good for it.

But here is Harry saving Malfoy and saying, okay, even though you are bad, you do not deserve to do and so I will save you.

Yes, but it is Harry saying, "You're not as bad as all that" rather than "you are my equal". And, you know, I constantly think: but Draco isn't Harry's equal. He's little and weak and cowardly and a bully. But if you're reason for not letting someone die is they're not bad enough--well that just means anyone who IS bad enough deserves to die.

And possibly that's true in the world of HP--Voldemort needed to die. But that is not a just or healthy way to view the world.

Have I mentioned how much I love Draco? I want to clutch, clutch him to my bosom. And then get him to have lots of sex with Harry, even after this book.

I think the point about not all deaths having the big tragic death scene is the point:

Me too.

t would have felt to me like a betrayal of the spirit of the books somehow.

Me too.

they defeated the enemy, but they're not perfect, and there will still be problems in the world caused by pettiness and misunderstanding. The fight will go on.

Yeah, exactly! That's what I got from it.

I just agree with you all over! :o)

to make the other species as real and different from humans as she could.

She did a good job. And just as goblins understand commerce differently, house elves understand freedom differently.

If you want to get serious about it it parallels human rights issues. For instance, in some other countries, is trying to get equal rights for women just forcing our culture onto someone else's? But if the inequality is severe enough, shouldn't ever human be given a chance to be free? Where do we draw the line? Yada yada.

So Harry, middle of the spectrum yes, neither wrong nor right. The trouble is, I agree with Hermione--not about enforcing my beliefs on beings I might not have the capacity to understand, but about giving each of them a chance. If there's one elf like Dobby who's enslaved, it's worth it to do what you can to make sure elves can get freedom if they want it. Not all goblins are going to be the same. It doesn't seem to dawn on Harry or even Bill that there can be exceptions to the rule, just as even though Harry, Ron, Hagrid and many others know about Dobby's longing for freedom, they think no other elves could ever want to be free. The other races are just "separate" and so it's okay to believe whatever about them is convenient.

we've been told that this is a Wizard's War.

Yes, but the point is it's not a wizard's war. Voldemort employs giants and I believe Dumbledore says Voldie's going to make a move for the goblins, too, though he doesn't. Centaurs are targeted by the Ministry. In fact, with shit like this going down, it could never touch only just wizards.

The whole reason centaurs and goblins don't want to get involved, I thought, is not because what other species do does not affect them, but because wizards have treated them badly in the past. Wizards have acted as though other species are lesser, so now other species behave as if wizards are lesser, not worth getting involved with.

But life is cyclical and nothing ever really does change, does it?

Yeah. That's why I found the end chilling. You can save the fucking world, and it's still not any different. It's like AtS. Only with uh, less sex and craziness. But just as many pregnancies, apparently.

I even think JKR's prose style has improved.

A lot of people say JKR might have good stories, but she's a bad writer. I really don't get that. I do not think she is a spectacular writer; sometimes her sentence structure is a little iffy, but she seems quite decent to me.

then we have that line of Dumbledore's about how they do the Sorting too young, which, what, means that Snape has been secretly a Gryffindor all along? That's not all that inclusive.

Yeah. Exactly. That line of Dumbledore's really bothered me. There's the implied dig to Slytherin. Also, I think if Snape was to be in any House not Slytherin, he should be in Hufflepuff, because Hufflepuff is about being loving and loyal. Both qualities were defining in Snape's life; they're why he was so brave. But of course, Hufflepuff is always treated as lesser, too. I still can't decide whether JKR leaves me feeling this uncomfortable on purpose! Sometimes I'm convinced she does; other times I think she's oblivious.

which I think was really important to build up atmosphere for the climax.

Yes, it certainly got it's point across. But I was miserable too!

I think I did it again at every single death/maiming scene.

I was wondering whether people mostly cried at the deaths. I find myself crying when I actually wanted to cheer--when Neville killed Nagini, when Kreacher showed up to fight, when Molly took on Bellatrix.

I agree with seraphcelene about feeling slow and shocked at how fast you guys read. It took me all day to read, but adding up the times I stopped and such and subtracting them--it took me 14 hours. But I have always been slow; I just think it's interesting.

Did anyone spend a long time thinking the Malfoys were all dead?
Not a long time, but I thought they were dead after Harry escaped from their home.

Did anyone else find the epilogue kind of chilling?
Not at all. I got warm fuzzies. The whole "whispering" was the opposite to me. To me, whispers are better remembered because they're told in a distinctly different way: the one speaking (or whispering) is making a point and wants to stress it. So (s)he makes it so the listener has to really listen to hear it.

Who had the Lupins slated for death the moment their baby was born healthy?
Oh, never thought of it that way! But it makes total sense.

How many times did you cry, and at what parts?
I "cried" (and for me that means misty-eyed) several times. Hedwig dying, Dudley's farewell, Kreacher's change of heart, Dobby dying, several of lines that can be put on bumper stickers ("sorting too soon" - I saw that, too, differently). But I actually laughed/sobbed when Harry's son was named Albus Severus. That wrecked me.

How many times did you laugh, or, uh. Possibly cheer or whoop? At what parts?
When George made a comment about his missing ear and being "holey." The Hermione/Ron kiss. Neville cutting off the snake's head. Ron punching Draco. Mrs. Weasley calling Bellatrix a bitch and then finishing her off.

How long did it take you to read?
I don't know how many hours it took me to read. I wasn't counting. I just know I'm done, and I'm exhausted, and I'm euphoric.

I took the whispering that way at first too, but the more I thought about it the more it bothered me.

My friend said if Lupin died, Tonks would die with him. I didn't think so at first, but she gradually convinced me, and then I was all uber convinced with the Harry-Lupin fight and Harry telling Lupin to stick with his kid (that fight BROKE me. Lupin is one of my favorite characters, and I thought things Harry said were CRUEL. But the intent behind them true). Then when the kid was born healthy I guessed they'd die because it would be TRAGIC, but there'd still be happiness and their memory in the form of Teddy.

"sorting too soon" - I saw that, too, differently

How did you see it? At first, I was nodding along, because children can't be judged the way you judge adults; they have to have a chance to find their true selves, and it can take a while.

And then I said, WAIT, when was SORTING ever about JUDGING? And then I got really upset. Amy, I'm upset.

I am still so happy over this book. It feels weird now it's all over.

And then I said, WAIT, when was SORTING ever about JUDGING? And then I got really upset. Amy, I'm upset.

I don't see Sorting as judging in the sense that we (humans) think of judging. I see it as the hat looking into your soul aseeing where you'd fit in best. In Snape's case, for the most part, he does belong in Slytherin because of his outlook in life (and he wanted to go into that house). Sure life has made him bitter, but Harry's life was hell before going to Hogwarts and look where the hat placed him (but only after he asked it to). People have aspects of each house within them and people get pigeon-holed into their houses' outward reputation. It's not really the Sorting that's judging, but people's perception of its results. "Sorting too soon" implied to me that people saw Snape as "bad," and he did a selfless thing that no one but Dumbledore knew about.

That's why I can see people being unsettled about what is conveyed in the epilogue - the old feelings are still there. But those (the old feelings) are the only thing we definitely see in the future. There could be many other, positive things too. Harry's comment that it doesn't matter which house his son is placed in along with his nod to Malfoy gave me that session. What about the condition of non-wizarding magical creaters, like house elves and goblins? What about wizards' relationship with muggles? Things can still be the same, but different too. I think Rowling left things vague for us for that very reason.

I don't think I really answered anything, to be honest. :-) I just didn't see it as a negative thing. I also am in the midst of reading a book comparing Harry Potter to Biblical themes, and it compared Sorting to the predestination verses free will debate, which I'm also struggling to get a grasp on. Sorting can be seen as being predestined into a certain house, but then Harry chose where he wanted to go. When you think of it, all children who expressed a distinct wish to go into certain houses were placed in them. Except Lily, who didn't seem to know where she wanted to go.

hey, just a random person who isn't really in the fandom at all anymore...but a friend linked me to that epilogue thing you wrote, and then I read this, and I'm gonna answer some of your questions now

Yes!! I think about 50-100 pages of the Trio camping all around Britain could have been cut out. The book only got really good at around page 400 or so, I thought it was sort of...going nowhere in particular before that. Which of course mimics the way things were going with the Trio on the hunt for the Horcruxes...but that doesn't mean it should be boring for me to read.

I was on the brink of tears for Hedwig. I shed abouttt 6 tears for Dobby. After Harry died I just let my head fall back on my chair and sobbed for a couple of minutes. I'd seen the picture for the next chapter, so I was pretty sure he wasn't dead, but still, I bawled.

I probably laughed about 5 times. Not as funny as the other books, but there were some good quips and one-liners. I'm pretty sure one of them was George's "Saintlike" comment, but I don't remember any others. I read all of the dialogue from the last 100 pages out loud, so I couldn't interrupt myself, but if I had read it in my head I probably would have said "fuck yeah!" after Molly's expletive.
oh, and at the end of every paragraph during the epilogue I shouted "FUCK!" or "ohh ugh STOP" or something. I didn't like seeing Harry and Ginny domesticated. yrgh.

I finished it Wednesday morning. I wanted to take my time. sava the flava.

Yeah, at first I thought how wonderful it was for Harry to say those things about Snape to his son but on second reading I paused. He's telling his son a way to not be in Slytherin. Eh? Slytherin!Snape was great but hey Albus, if you don't want to be in that House, here's how you do it...

There is some hope for Slytherin though! It's when James said "There's nothing wrong with that." about Slytherin. Unlike those before him who told Harry that only Dark Wizards come from that House or bad people or etc, James says there is nothing wrong with being a Slytherin. He's only teasing Albus just to tease him, as we see in the epilogue, Ron has an opinion about everything and I'm sure Ron has mentioned bad things about the House. But I'm equally sure Harry has mentioned Slytherin in a good light for his eldest to not hate Slytherin.

I know that I'm really late to this conversation, but I agree with what you said about DH. I did like it, but it wasn't my favorite of the books (Book 5 is my favorite). DH left me with a lot of questions, and it has potential problems with it. Still, overall I'm satisfied with it, though I'm sad that HP has ended.
It's hard to remember what I first thought about DH, but I'm going to try and answer your questions anyway:
1) If it makes you feel any better, I thought that the Voldemort has Lily's blood and protection thing confusing.
2) I don't think that I ever thought that the Malfoys were dead.
3) I thought the epilogue was too "happily ever after" until I read your chilling version of it.
4) Oh my gosh, the part where they are on the run and camping is SO SLOW.
5) I never thought that Lupin and Tonks would die! I guess I can understand why it had to happen, but still, their deaths seemed excessive.
6) I never cry at movies or books. Ok, I got misty-eyed when Dumbledore died in Book 6. But really, I don't get emotional easily.
7) I laughed at the humor in the book. There wasn't that MUCH humor, but I laughed at what was there.
8) Oh my gosh, reading takes me forever. Probably 2 or 3 days, I think. Of course, I don't read all through the night or anything, so the actual amount of hours would be less than that. But I read HP books pretty quickly, so you can tell that I'm a slow reader.
So, yes, that's what I thought. Thanks for your analysis! I'm always interested to hear what people think about HP. =)

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SPOILERS FOR HARRY POTTER

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