SPOILERS FOR HARRY POTTER

[lettered]

QUESTIONS:

Does someone want to explain the whole, Voldemort has Harry's blood thing? Got the part about Harry being a Horcrux, and needing to sacrifice himself to live, and all the stuff about the wands, but didn't get the thing about part of Lily's sacrifice being transferred to Voldemort?

Did anyone spend a long time thinking the Malfoys were all dead?

Did anyone else find the epilogue kind of chilling?

Did anyone find the part where the trio were on the run, camping out in different spots, quite slow and a bit drag-y? Especially while Ron was off being a prat?

Who had the Lupins slated for death the moment their baby was born healthy?

How many times did you cry, and at what parts?

How many times did you laugh, or, uh. Possibly cheer or whoop? At what parts?

How long did it take you to read?

Phineas says, "Remember the part the Slytherins played!" What part did they play? We see Slugghorn running about helping--is there a suggestion, or did I just miss it, that the Syltherins who left when McGonagall said to prepare to fight, helped muster the forces of thestrals and families and whatnot?


*

OVERALL:

I loved this book. A lot.

To say the least, there was a lot of hype leading up to it. To me almost all of that seems justified now. Not the people being dickheads parts of the hype, but the general excitement.

As for myself, I had my own set of expectations. I've always liked HP. I've always liked it quite a bit, actually. And there were certain aspects I could get fannish about, but not the 'verse as a whole. I just thought the books were good, and fun, and entertaining, but certain things sat wrong with me and I couldn't ever see myself really dying of love for any of it. That changed about eight months ago. Something clicked in my head, and since then I've been pretty much mad for them. Some of you have seen me drooling over Harry/Draco but it wasn't just that; it was all of it.

The thing that clicked was I just started seeing the books in a different light. I started, uh, interrogating them from a different perspective. And I started thinking about what it all meant, what it would mean for book 7, where JKR would go with all this. And I formed a lot of ideas and theories about not just what was going to happen but what had to happen (particularly thematically). If they didn't happen, the could still be fun nice adventure books, but pretty much the way I had started to view the books would collapse. I could still hold that view, of course, but I'd have to discount book 7. It would've been a disappointment.

I had meant to write these ideas down, several large proofs about what I thought would happen and why. I wish I had now just for the pleasure of looking at them and saying, "OMG I was so smart! So right!" But that's just me liking to gloat--not over anyone--to just gloat for the sake of gloating. But mostly, I'm just happy the things I needed to happen for this world to work for me not only happened but happened and then some. Most of the points I wanted to be made were very explicit. Stuff like:

-Snape loving Lily. Snape turning from Voldemort because Voldemort was hunting Lily. Snape being Dumbledore's because of Lily. Dumbledore trusting Snape because he knew the power of Snape's love. Snape's love being a weapon against Voldemort.
-Harry having to sacrifice himself. Harry having to willingly die in order to live. Harry's sacrifice mirroring Lily's sacrifice, Harry's sacrifice defeating Voldemort, Harry living.
-Races uniting at the end, goblins and house elves being instrumental to getting Horcruxes/fighting Voldemort.

The things that I thought would really be important that weren't there was I thought Harry would have to have some big moment of forgiving and even loving the human part of Voldemort, the part that was still Tom Riddle, in order to defeat him. But the thing about Harry having to sacrifice himself in order to live took care of a lot of the themes I wanted to be covered on that front. I also thought we'd see a little more in House cooperation (namely the admission Slytherin isn't all bad, in more than just a cursory way).

(The latter would be why I find the epilogue chilling. HP is about 4 generations: Dumbledore's, Riddle's, James Potter's, and Harry Potters, and each of those generations has parallels and repetitions that circle, and circle, and circle. What it looked like to me on Platform 9 3/4 was just more history repeating: Ron telling his kid to give Draco's kid a tough time [omg. Draco's kid. *is momentarily manaical with glee!!!*], and there's still prejudice against Slytherin. There's a bit at the end which is maybe supposed to be nice, with Harry telling young Albus any House is alright, with that really amazing and to me completely unexpected tribute payed to Severus Snape. But it's told in whispers, so easily forgotten. Everything seems so much the same as it was in that scene on the train with James, Lily, Severus, and Sirius. As it must have been with Riddle, as it must have been with Albus. I can't figure out whether JKR meant to do that or not--I was so happy just before the epilogue and then the epilogue itself SENT CHILLS DOWN MY SPINE.

Oh, and I like how much happens at King's Cross, all that, too. I wrote a paper in undergrad about the symbolism of a train station in a Pynchon book. Anyway, that bit with Albus was in dreamscape!King's Cross, the Lily,Petunia fight at the station, the end with Harry and kidlets. Which just adds SO MUCH to Voldemort at the train station in movie 5. COOL.)

I have a lot more to say, but now I'm kinda splooging everywhere so I leave you with this.

ETA: I also thought there would be more about the inter-racial cooperation than there was. Some of the stuff about goblins still made me uncomfortable, like Harry wasn't really being fair.

Also, I fucking love this so hard I don't know what to do with myself now.

ETA2: Stoney linked to this; I link as well since it was exactly what popped into my head when I read that epilogue. LMAO.

Comments

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

answer to Voldemort/Harry's blood: in GoF when Wormtail brings Voldemort back to power, he uses Harry's blood (forearm) and the bone of Tom Riddle Sr. and his own hand. Dumbledore was all excited when he realized Voldemort had Harry's (Lily's) blood in him.

Slytherins played a part with Severus giving his life to aid the Order.

[margotlefaye.livejournal.com]

I liked the book when I read it. Which was only hours ago. But, over the course of those hours, I'm more and more annoyed with it.

I think JKR took the easy route of killing off a lot of less significant characters, emotionally manipulating the audience, rather than taking the risk of killing off a main or important character in a meaningful way. As things stand, Lupin and Tonks are just part of a body count. We don't actually see their deaths. Which makes it almost meaningless. Frankly, I expected Ron to die, saving Harry or Hermione. I'm not sorry he survived, but that one death would have had far more power than all the deaths that actually happened, combined.

And while I adored Snape's history, and flat-out loved that Harry actually named his son after him--Albus Severus Potter!--I hated the way Snape died. It seemed like an afterthought, passive.

Honestly, I thought there was so much character evolution for both Snape and Draco in HBP, and I wanted that paid off, and for Draco, it wasn't, while for Snape the payoff was all posthumous. I would have been happier if Snape had been a bigger part of the book, and the Malfoys (all of whom clearly realized they'd chosen the wrong side in the very first chapter) had been a lot more active on the side of good. Now, that would have been a tale of redemption worth reading.

The more I think about it, the more disappointed I am in the book. But, that's just me.

[seraphcelene]

Some of the stuff about goblins still made me uncomfortable, like Harry wasn't really being fair.

I think Rowling tried not to make it all about redemption and resolution. With the inter-specis thing, I think she made a point, from as early as SS, to make the other species as real and different from humans as she could. I left it off my little glee session, but I loved Bill's little chat with the Harry about Griphook and Goblins. What he said really stuck with me: "Goblin notions of ownership, payment, and repayment are not the same as human ones [...] We are talking about a different breed of being." It reminded me of Hermione's fruitless battle to free the House Elves and of Firenze and the centaurs. I think that Rowling really tried to make them seperate and so we're not meant to think that Harry is necessarily *wrong* about the way that he thinks of the goblins, but not right either. We get Hermione on one end of the spectrum and Harry on the other.

I'm not really surpised that there wasn't more cooperation from the other species because from as early as PoA we've been told that this is a Wizard's War. The centaurs saw what was coming and wouldn't get involved. That was parroted by the Goblins and the house elves are only involved when they are ordered to. Except at the end and I'm not sure where that came from.

I read the end as a happily ever after from Rowling to the fans. Everything worked out and well into the future our heroes are happy. The only reason that I didn't like the epilogue as much was that it was too much. Too Mary Sue fan writing a cotton candy sweet ending for Harry Potter. They all grew up, married each other and had kids. But what you've pointed out makes a certain kind of sense. They *are* repeating themselves -- as Dumbledore as Riddle as Snape as Harry. But life is cyclical and nothing ever really does change, does it? The Malfoy's betray Voldemort for the same reasons that got them involved with him in the first place ... dangerously stupid self-interest. In the end it's that desire for their son's safety that leads to that betrayal. They aren't redeemed in the end because they are not interested in redemption, never were, never will be and given the chance I can see the potential for Draco to follow his parents path.

I'm kinda all over the place as well! I LOVED this book!!

[violaclaire.livejournal.com]

I loved this book to little bitty pieces, but I'm still not sure how much of it was the book and how much was nostalgia. I mean, I've been reading these books since I bought the first one at a school book fair when I was nine years old, so DH would have to be truly awful to keep me from sighing happily over every reference to the past six books. (Side note: it may have been completely gratuitous, but I loved Hermione going through just about every book she's ever mentioned and deciding what to pack.)

At the moment, I think that the book really is great, that it's creepy and funny and touching. I even think JKR's prose style has improved. I loved the final battle, and I love the way so much of Lily's journey through Hogwarts is like Harry's journey inverted (the train scene paralleling Harry's meeting Ron, James talking about Slytherin and echoing what Malfoy said about Hufflepuff in the first book, and so on). The epilogue . . . doesn't bother me as much I think it bothers other people, but it's not my favorite moment by a long shot. I want to know what everyone's doing with their lives besides having babies, for one thing. But your idea with the cyclical generations is extremely interesting and really does make that scene more disturbing, now that I think about it.

I also agree with you about wanting to see more about Slytherin. I love to death the idea of Snape as Slytherin's redemption--but then we have that line of Dumbledore's about how they do the Sorting too young, which, what, means that Snape has been secretly a Gryffindor all along? That's not all that inclusive.

Anyway, questions:

Did anyone find the part where the trio were on the run, camping out in different spots, quite slow and a bit drag-y? Especially while Ron was off being a prat?
I don't think it was pleasant to read, but I didn't find it drag-y. I mean, it's all completely blurred together in my head right now, but I got a general impression of slow, relentless misery, which I think was really important to build up atmosphere for the climax.

How many times did you cry, and at what parts?
Oh, god. I started with Hedwig dying, and I think I did it again at every single death/maiming scene. I cried when Dobby died, and I didn't even like him that much.

How many times did you laugh, or, uh. Possibly cheer or whoop? At what parts?
If I hadn't been on the train when I read it, badass!Neville would have made me cheer a ridiculous amount.

How long did it take you to read?
All together, probably about six or seven hours, but I got interrupted a lot, so it ended up taking me most of the day.

[stefanie-bean.livejournal.com]

I too loved that scene in the OotP movie, probably one of the best for me as I didn't like OotP!movie very much. Voldemort just wiggling his head around, dressed in a dark suit, was *uncanny* and *scary,* not because he went all Evil Overlord Wizardy on everyone, but because he just looked ... demented.

It reminded me of those scenes in Adrian Lyne's Jacob's Ladder where the hapless Vietnam War vet has these nightmare visions of the man with no face just *waggling* his head at top speed, seen through car windows, in totally unusual places. Creepy!

The "King's Cross" chapter really "made" the book for me.

That's a good point about the goblins - I didn't realize it till now, but did *Neville* end up with the goblin sword? That represents a major double-cross, and I would think the goblins would want some serious revenge.

[imnotacommittee.livejournal.com]

Did anyone spend a long time thinking the Malfoys were all dead?
Not a long time, but I thought they were dead after Harry escaped from their home.

Did anyone else find the epilogue kind of chilling?
Not at all. I got warm fuzzies. The whole "whispering" was the opposite to me. To me, whispers are better remembered because they're told in a distinctly different way: the one speaking (or whispering) is making a point and wants to stress it. So (s)he makes it so the listener has to really listen to hear it.

Who had the Lupins slated for death the moment their baby was born healthy?
Oh, never thought of it that way! But it makes total sense.

How many times did you cry, and at what parts?
I "cried" (and for me that means misty-eyed) several times. Hedwig dying, Dudley's farewell, Kreacher's change of heart, Dobby dying, several of lines that can be put on bumper stickers ("sorting too soon" - I saw that, too, differently). But I actually laughed/sobbed when Harry's son was named Albus Severus. That wrecked me.

How many times did you laugh, or, uh. Possibly cheer or whoop? At what parts?
When George made a comment about his missing ear and being "holey." The Hermione/Ron kiss. Neville cutting off the snake's head. Ron punching Draco. Mrs. Weasley calling Bellatrix a bitch and then finishing her off.

How long did it take you to read?
I don't know how many hours it took me to read. I wasn't counting. I just know I'm done, and I'm exhausted, and I'm euphoric.

[elizapants.livejournal.com]

hey, just a random person who isn't really in the fandom at all anymore...but a friend linked me to that epilogue thing you wrote, and then I read this, and I'm gonna answer some of your questions now

Yes!! I think about 50-100 pages of the Trio camping all around Britain could have been cut out. The book only got really good at around page 400 or so, I thought it was sort of...going nowhere in particular before that. Which of course mimics the way things were going with the Trio on the hunt for the Horcruxes...but that doesn't mean it should be boring for me to read.

I was on the brink of tears for Hedwig. I shed abouttt 6 tears for Dobby. After Harry died I just let my head fall back on my chair and sobbed for a couple of minutes. I'd seen the picture for the next chapter, so I was pretty sure he wasn't dead, but still, I bawled.

I probably laughed about 5 times. Not as funny as the other books, but there were some good quips and one-liners. I'm pretty sure one of them was George's "Saintlike" comment, but I don't remember any others. I read all of the dialogue from the last 100 pages out loud, so I couldn't interrupt myself, but if I had read it in my head I probably would have said "fuck yeah!" after Molly's expletive.
oh, and at the end of every paragraph during the epilogue I shouted "FUCK!" or "ohh ugh STOP" or something. I didn't like seeing Harry and Ginny domesticated. yrgh.

I finished it Wednesday morning. I wanted to take my time. sava the flava.

[bridgetmc.livejournal.com]

Yeah, at first I thought how wonderful it was for Harry to say those things about Snape to his son but on second reading I paused. He's telling his son a way to not be in Slytherin. Eh? Slytherin!Snape was great but hey Albus, if you don't want to be in that House, here's how you do it...

There is some hope for Slytherin though! It's when James said "There's nothing wrong with that." about Slytherin. Unlike those before him who told Harry that only Dark Wizards come from that House or bad people or etc, James says there is nothing wrong with being a Slytherin. He's only teasing Albus just to tease him, as we see in the epilogue, Ron has an opinion about everything and I'm sure Ron has mentioned bad things about the House. But I'm equally sure Harry has mentioned Slytherin in a good light for his eldest to not hate Slytherin.

[zibbycomix.livejournal.com]

I know that I'm really late to this conversation, but I agree with what you said about DH. I did like it, but it wasn't my favorite of the books (Book 5 is my favorite). DH left me with a lot of questions, and it has potential problems with it. Still, overall I'm satisfied with it, though I'm sad that HP has ended.
It's hard to remember what I first thought about DH, but I'm going to try and answer your questions anyway:
1) If it makes you feel any better, I thought that the Voldemort has Lily's blood and protection thing confusing.
2) I don't think that I ever thought that the Malfoys were dead.
3) I thought the epilogue was too "happily ever after" until I read your chilling version of it.
4) Oh my gosh, the part where they are on the run and camping is SO SLOW.
5) I never thought that Lupin and Tonks would die! I guess I can understand why it had to happen, but still, their deaths seemed excessive.
6) I never cry at movies or books. Ok, I got misty-eyed when Dumbledore died in Book 6. But really, I don't get emotional easily.
7) I laughed at the humor in the book. There wasn't that MUCH humor, but I laughed at what was there.
8) Oh my gosh, reading takes me forever. Probably 2 or 3 days, I think. Of course, I don't read all through the night or anything, so the actual amount of hours would be less than that. But I read HP books pretty quickly, so you can tell that I'm a slow reader.
So, yes, that's what I thought. Thanks for your analysis! I'm always interested to hear what people think about HP. =)