Oh, so, I meant that, about good bye.

[lettered]

Thought about it a lot, and I'm leaving Livejournal.

That's all dramatic and stuff, but I probably won't be gone until the end of the year. If most people decide to leave, and there's a mass exodus before then, I may be gone earlier. But this journal, my fic journal, and my private backup journal will be gone for certain by January 1, 2008.

I have a lot of stuff to say about the whole LJ/6A debacle, but for some reason every time I start a post on it I just have to get up and walk away from it, give it some time, read lots and lots of Harry/Draco, spend time with my family, or eat ice cream. Can't decide whether I'm too angry about it, depressed perhaps, lazy maybe, or possibly I'm an ostrich? Anyway, during the strikeout in May I felt very energized, but maybe that was because I thought that it was possible that LJ had made a mistake, and after hearing customer complaints, would fix it. In other words, I knew I was going to give Livejournal another chance. Well, I did, but I am still displeased as a customer. So, I take my business elsewhere.

I don't know where. One of the reasons I'm staying on LJ for another few months is that I want to see how many other people leave and where they go. Even if a lot of you leave (which I sekritly hope you will), it will not be all at once, and LJ will still be the place to be in the thick of fandom things for a while. If there is a mass movement, decision making, support/rallying/reasearch/etc to be done, I want to be involved. And if people are going to continue to discuss the issues connected to why I'm leaving, I want to be a part of those discussions. Because I do have a lot to say, and I want to say it to my flist, people who I'm interested in having around wherever I end up.

I'm going to back up the journals I have here and copy them to Insane Journal for now. I'm going to be cross-posting to Insane Journal (where I am tkp) and possibly Journal Fen over the next several months. I hope to gradually phase out: to just post links to fic here, instead of actual fics here, etc. Then I will be gone. I know I can make myself do that, but I know I can't make myself never visit LJ again. If you do decide to stay and not post elsewhere, I may still visit from time to time, but I will not have an account here ever again. I don't want to lose touch with any of you. I mean, well, except you; you're always talking about your grandmother's corns.

So, um, this isn't quite yet goodbye, and won't be for a while. Mostly I'm just posting this because once I say I'll do something, I'll do it. And now I've said it.

Okay, now that announcements are over: what're your thoughts? Leavin' on a jet plane? Why? Staying, why? Cat macros? Why not? Where are you going, if you go, where're you lookin' at, what are your hopes and dreams for fandom future? What did you think of the last ep of Mad Men? Is Jason Isaacs the man, or what? How 'bout that burr86, Barak, and Brad? Does the news comm make you laugh, cry, headdesk, or wha...? Did anyone even like the first two Bourne movies? What's your favorite pizza delivery service? Do you think Livejournal would disallow canon!Buffy/Angel fanart? How come I can't spell misogyny? What's the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist? And the number one question all of us are asking: how come Buffy never wore the go-go boots again?

Comments

[redbrickrose.livejournal.com]

Joy. *clings*

Glad to hear you'll be around for awhile. I plan to crosspost to IJ and JF too for the time being. I posted earlier saying I'm not leaving, but I haven't totally made up my mind yet. I'll land where fandom does, and I may phase out too. It depends on where everybody ends up and if I need to juggle multiple flists and just . . . this whole thing makes me sad and exhausted. I understand having to get up and walk away from it. I kind of go back and forth between not being able to look at it and not being able to walk away. I'm pissed at the way lj has treated us and I'm never going to give them money ever again. Like I was telling Meg earlier, I want us to leave, but I want us all to leave together and end up in the same place and . . . that seems very improbable. And it makes me sad.

[tkp.livejournal.com]

I kind of go back and forth between not being able to look at it and not being able to walk away.

Yeah! That's exactly how I feel. You are so good at that.

I want us all to leave together and end up in the same place and . . . that seems very improbable.

I dunno. I was just reading a comment someone made somewhere about fandom being all on usenet, and there was a mass exodus then, and it seemed like the end of the world, or at least the end of fandom, then.

I think that things are gonna be shaky for a while, but I feel actually pretty positive about fandom finding a place.

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

I think I'm with you on the "phasing out" thing, seeing where it (fandom itself) leads.

I didn't see the last ep of MM yet, as I was at the spa. It's Tivo'd and waiting for me and Maze tomorrow. This LJ debacle is hard to follow from the end backwards. Links of pertinent info? I like the actor who plays Bourne, and the fact that each movie he has less lines and more biceps. I have no good pizza, this is North Cal. LJ will allow B/A fanart if Buffy has body hair. I can't spell misogyny either. It never looks right. A Psychiatrist is an MD and as such can prescribe meds, a Psychologist is a PhD and can't. Buffy lent the boots to Spike, while he was going through his gender searching period. He never returned them. Even right now, they're under Angel's bed at the Hyperion. He doesn't wear them anymore though, because he thinks they make his ankles look fat.

[tkp.livejournal.com]

Pertinent info:

Short version: This article has a nice tidy summary.

Long version: ponderosa121 and elaboration get deleted for two separate pieces of HP fanart. See ponderosa's post about it here, and the art she got banned for here. pornish_pixies gets this notice from the LJ team.

Apparently, LJ is under pressure again. For an explanation of what the pressures are I rec this post. It's by synecochic, who you might remember became a little infamous during the May strikeout (she's an LJ employee who posted reassurances to fandom that the whole thing was just a rumor and nothing would happen), but the post is still interesting. It produces a little debate about what US laws on porn actually are. LJ later clarifies with this statement.

That's pretty much the last we've heard from LJ on the subject, except for two individual employees. One is burr86, who, while LJ was busy not answering anyone's questions, took the time to mock fandom (article here), and the other is Brad, the Founder of Livejournal. This article is about the rumor he's quitting LJ/SA and why; he later confirmed he is indeed quitting, though there's no "official" word on why.

Fandom, obviously, has been all astir. But much quieter than last time, and much more divided, both of which I find disturbing. There's a great list of inner-fandom conflicts summarized here.

The main two issues I see are:
1) Yeah, but that was kiddie porn, not us. I'm guessing you talked to Fod about that. If not, I can link you to her post and also the thread which resulted in me wanting to build her a shrine.
2) LJ's just doin' business. Along the lines of synecdochic's post, but used to argue people shouldn't be mad at LJ. This post struck me as particularly along those lines. While I have always respected the poster I feel like she missed the point entirely, and was too tired to comment. Besides, then liz_marcs and rahirah posted exactly what I would have responded, stating that yes indeed LJ is a business and is treating customers badly.

***

-so if Buffy shaves, all bets are off?
-thanks for the clarification on psychiatry. I saw a psychologist the other day. She said I need a psychiatrist, because I need drugs. Right away, apparently.
-SPIKE'S GENDER SEARCHING PERIOD. Omg. I love Spike for that. LOVE him, Kita.

[diachrony.livejournal.com]

Well, if I choose another journal as my "main" journal it is totally NOT going to be GreatestJournal. Nor will it be JournalFen. (Yes I have a paid JF account but ... nah.)

I'd pick InsaneJournal as my main journal, if I "move" in that sense.

However, I am really enjoying Semagic as a cross-posting tool and I wouldn't leave LJ altogether, because it seems like half my f'list isn't even fannish and won't be leaving.

And since IJ and GJ (I think JF as well) allow responding to comments via email, it won't be that difficult to keep up with folks. Yes, checking different journal friendslists may be a little awkward but even that not so much with the Firefox tabs system.

I *am* however seriously leaning towards not renewing my paid account when it expires. I may revert to Basic w/o ads. After all, I can put 500 iconses on my IJ and they won't vanish or become unusable like they would at GJ. And that's good enough for keeping up with everyone here. And I balk at the idea of giving LJ more of my money. Bah.

Mere rumor so far: 6A may be looking for a new buyer, and this new buyer, who knows, may be more fandom friendly?

Papa John's is my fave pizza delivery service because they make the best pizzas and they deliver reliably within a half hour.

LJ would only disallow canon!Buffy/Angel fanart if Mutant Enemy bitched about it, I'm thinkin'.

You can spell misogyny. You just did, there.

Psychiatrists and psychologists have different degrees and only one of them is allowed to dispense medicines in-office. Um, which is which? I should be going to bed so I won't be googling this up right now ...

Awww, Buffy in go-go boots. ::hearts::

Well, they really looked kinda high-school cheerleaderish and just not right for the more mature adult Buffy, wouldn't you say?

Besides, she probably wore them for Riley. "There might be outfits."

Heh heh heh ...

[tkp.livejournal.com]

No way on GF for me too. I dislike a few things about JF as well, though am now the proud owner of a shiny account.

I think that as someone who has RL people not interested in fandom on your list, you have a lot more reason to stay than I. If I were you, I'd totally be keeping LJ to keep in touch with those people.

I balk at giving LJ anything! So, solidarity.

Haven't heard that rumor about 6A, interesting!

Haven't had Papa John's in ages! My favorite thing about them is they give you a bucket of grease. Oh god I'm hungry.

ust not right for the more mature adult Buffy,

Totally agree, though that makes me sad! I liked how crazy her clothes were.

Besides, she probably wore them for Riley. "There might be outfits."

HEE. Nothin' but the boots...

[seraphcelene]

Dude, you just totally broke my heart right now. Completely ripped it out of my chest.

You know how you always know that things are going to end, they have to because if there's a beginning there's got to be an ending ... this feels like an ending to me. Fandom making a mass exodus to who knows where, every scattering, heading for all available exits. Things will never be the same again. Whether they will be better or worse, who knows, but definitly never the same again. It kinda makes me wanna cry that 6A are such dumb ass wankers. Yeah, I said it 6A, I said it.

I was thinking that I'd cross post to all three journals using whatever availabe software, Semagic, I think. At least until fandom roosted in a new part of the internet, but it seems like there's so many places that people are going. I'll keep LJ just because there are a few non-fannish people that I keep my eyes on. I never had a paid account so I'm sure 6A won't be missing me all that much.

I am worn out by the stupidity of people of late. What the fuck?! Is there something in the water?

[tkp.livejournal.com]

Like I said over email...please don't be sad. Or cry, or anything!

I know how you feel, but fandom is really resilient. I have a feeling we'll pick up the pieces eventually, or else establish a new place for ourselves elsewhere, and hopefully it will be a place you'll want to be, too.

I totally understand keeping an LJ if you have RL friends on it; several people have mentioned that. Well, I understand keeping an LJ, period; some people just feel differently about this issue. But I feel so strongly, and I hope enough other people do too, that the relocation elsewhere will be significant enough to start again.

Yeah, LJ and fandom have just been fucking fucked up, not to mention our society, the world, and probably Martians.

[tkp.livejournal.com]

also. (((((((lotsa hugs))))))))

[margotlefaye.livejournal.com]

I'm with you on the gradual moving away from LJ. At this point, I'm inclined to establish an IJ, but since my LJ is a free account, I'm not closing it immediately. I rarely post in my own LJ due to time constraints, and only opened the account to begin with in order to join the community at writer-con. I've since used it to follow what's going on with my flist. Many of whom are moving to IJ, all of whom, wherever they are moving, are completely disgusted with the latest nonsense going on here.

But, what's happening here in LJ land is simply a part of a bigger, very disturbing, picture of things going on in our society as a whole. We've set up arbitrary lines to substitute for reasoning. And, anything that falls on this side of the line is evil/bad/disgusting/perversion, even if it's Romeo and Juliet (she was 13, after all) because we aren't making any distinctions, just lumping it all in. But if it's on that side of the line, we really don't care about it, even if it is degrading to women, or gays, or persons of color or...well, anyone, really, because it's met the artificial test of being on the "correct" side of the line.

This sort of blind adherence to an arbitrary rule without bothering to distinguish what is and what is not predatory or anti-social, or truly dangerous behavior---well, blind adherence to arbitrary rules never ends well.

Just remember to add me to the Insane Journal equivalent of your flist when we both get there.

[tkp.livejournal.com]

Cool. I've got on IJ account, and will be sure to add you.

Everything you say is true. I tend to weigh in on the say of moral relativism, even if I would like to be an absolutist. I believe it's impossible to say, "this is always right, and this will always be wrong". But that's what's been done for centuries. That's what law is all about. That's what's easiest. So of course a big corporation like 6A is going to go that route, of making things very cut and dry, instead of even beginning to try to understand.

[gypsy-sally.livejournal.com]

I'll be friending you over on IJ, for to keep up with the fic writing.

I'm sticking around here only long enough to finish a couple of WIPs, and then its goodbye, so long suckas and all the rest.

LJ can cross me off it's patron list.

[tkp.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm glad you have an IJ. See you there!

[m-phoenix.livejournal.com]

Huh? Okay, I get home and decide to read my flist after a month away and it sounds my my LJ world is slowly ending again. This is not good. I'm going to have to check out the links you provided in an earlier comment to find out what the fuck is going on, but I know if you're leaving it must really be serious. The thought of you leaving LJ makes me deeply sad. This whole debacle -- whatever it is this time -- just makes me feel deeply tired. I got an IJ account during strikethrough and now it sounds like I might have to start actually using it after all. I will definitely be friending you over there ::hugs and tries not to cling::

[tkp.livejournal.com]

Hey! Missed seein' ya around.

I think I might be sad, too, after the weird blankness dies away, but if you want to keep up with me, you'll be able to, and I will certainly keep up with you and those on my flist I care about. If lots of people decide to stay on LJ I'll still be around reading posts and stuff, but never with my own account. I'm too dissatisfied with the way LJ has been treating customers to feel like this is I place I'd be comfortable housing so much of myself.

*hugs back*, and you don't need to cling! I'm right here.

[semby.livejournal.com]

When this whole debacle started up again, I was very motivated about everyone leaving LJ, but the more I think about it, and the more I read people on my f-list saying "I'm staying," I'm beginning to doubt that it's the right thing for me. I hate to say it because it sounds like I lack faith in fandom, which isn't the case, but I'm just not convinced that we'll be able to recreate the same community and environment we've had here all along. If most people do end up moving definitively, I'll move too, but right now I'm not so sure. I've set up my IJ and GJ, but so far it feels pointless since everyone's still here as well anyway.

I've also really just wanted *everyone* to choose one place to go so I don't have to keep up with multiple friends pages, but if some people are *definitely* staying, and people like you are *definitely* leaving, I think I'm going to have to adjust to spreading myself across two (and hopefully only two) journaling sites. I don't want to lose any of you!

[tkp.livejournal.com]

I guess part of the reason I did decide to leave is I really do have faith fandom can recreate the same community elsewhere. If it doesn't, well...that'll suck. But while I have seen lots of people saying they're staying, it's not with the kind of conviction with which the fewer people are leaving. So I figure, if those of us who do leave do find a stable place elsewhere, those left behind will eventually come too. And I completely understand that "not leaving unless everyone else does" sentiment--I felt that way the first Strikethrough. This time through it just feels wrong, for me, personally, to stay, but I understand those who are.

I don't want to lose you or anyone else either, semby. You were one of my first lj friends. But I have a lot of confidence that fandom and the networks and friends everyone's established here will continue on in some form, even if it's shaky for a while.

[anelith.livejournal.com]

You're the first person on my flist to say for sure that they are leaving, but the rumblings are getting loud enough that yesterday I opened free accounts for myself on both IJ and GJ (anelith in both places). I haven't taken the step of copying my journal to those yet. I guess for me it isn't as important since I don't have fic that people might search for.

I stay for my friends, and if the last of my flist leaves, so do I. I can imagine a day when I visit LJ to occasionally browse for fic... Unfortunately my paid account needed renewal just a few days ago, and rather than deal with the ads I chose to give LJ money once again, since this is still the watering hole for fandom. It will be interesting to see whether that's the last time I do that.

If some of my flist moves to one journal, and the rest stays here, I guess I'll have to keep up with two flists. That will be a bit difficult. I really hope to avoid doing that. Somehow that seems hard. Maybe it's easier than I think it will be.

[tkp.livejournal.com]

I guess for me it isn't as important since I don't have fic that people might search for.

Well, for me, it's important 'cause...my LJ entires have been a part of my life. Not just my fic, but my random posts, people's random responses and everything. The whole "people need to be able to find my fic!" things is a far second in importance. Maybe because I really doubt that many people read my stuff after my initial posts.

I do think quite a few people have said they're staying. I wouldn't want to check 2 flists either, and if a lot of people do stay, I'm not really looking forward to surfing lj without an account. But I'm placing a lot of faith in the idea that fandom can construct a place for itself, and that if you build it, they will come.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

I...know exactly how you feel. Sadly, I'm paid up until July 2008 (after which I'm dropping down to no-paid, no-ads basic), so I'm stuck here a bit longer.

I'm not entirely sure how I'm going to extract myself from LJ, because it seems at least half the people I really, really want to stay in touch with are remaining here (they all have perm accounts, and so they're basically sitting on LJ's system anyway).

The only immediate action I can take is moving cubed_music off of LJ and making it an IJ-only com. As for fic...providing the link to an IJ post resolves my issue there. One I finish the three WiPs I've got that are two chapters from the end, I'm going to start doing that.

Like you, I hate this. But unless something major happens in the next six months, I think I'll be massively cutting back my interaction with LJ.

[tkp.livejournal.com]

Oh, I thought you were leaving after your paid account ended; I misunderstood. It does suck to be paid through for so long.

A lot of people have said they're staying. Personally, I'm really really interested in fandom constructing a place of it's own, and I feel like it's sort of a "if you build it they will come" situation. I don't mean necessarily that they fandom will leave lj, but that they will interact with the new place enough such that those who don't have ljs any more are still getting the fandom experience they want. Maybe that's a naive hope of mine, but believing in it is part of the reason I made the decision to leave.

Even if LJ did something really major to clean this whole mess up, I think I'd still be leaving. I mean, if a restaurant makes me wait and gives me bad food and bad service, even if they comp my meal and gaurantee better service next time, I probably still wouldn't go back.

[only-passenger.livejournal.com]

for now, for the forseeable future, i'll stay.

i've already done an lj-flee: nipplegate2006 (http://ljabuse.blogspot.com/2006_06_04_ljabuse_archive.html). me and all my friends packed up, gave lj the finger, and went, mostly, to gj. and then half of us left gj and went to vox. and them some of those went to ij. some came back to lj, like me, with a different user name. the people who had supported me and co-miserated with me all through my pregnancy and birth and the fucked-up-insano-acid-trip that is being a new mom were scattered. friendships that had lasted half a decade just disappeared.

and of course, lj didn't care that we left. because they suck. and we all know they suck, and they started sucking way before the strikehtorugh.

fandom is organizing better. this, in part, is because every member of fandom organizing doesn't have a kid on their tit, and having a kid on yr tit seriously effects the amount of shit you can get done. i've been reading fandom_flies and links posted in that community, and it sounds like maybe there's enough energy. people and money to create a space where there isn't such a kneejerk reaction to anything that could be construed as quetionable and might therefore cost the farm. i support the efforts.

lj doesn't like us. and when i say us, i'm taking about a group of poeple that extends beyond fandom. i'm talking about anybody who won't just take no for an answer and leave it at that. those who experience life outside of the slim margin the dominant culture deems normal and want to share their thoughts about it. those who get hackles-up, and rightly so, when their freedom is wrangled and threatened. lj fucking hates us. lots and lots of businesses, systems and individuals hate us.

so i say, fuck you, lj. i hate you right back. i hate you so much that when you say plz don't put yr pr0n up here imma say what as that? didn't quite hear, and then bombard you with my filthy smutty fanfic. and maybe pictures too. just to tick you off.

and i will do it until you shut me down. and i hope there are lots of people who will stay here and do it until they shut us down. because, yeah, they could realistically do just that. but it'd be way more trouble, way more of a pr nightmare, way more expensive for lj/6a to have to shut down thousands of journal than to have to deal with the straglers after a mass leaving out.

i don't know. i didn't think i had so much to say.

[tkp.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry about your own leaving LJ experience. I hope I don't lose touch with anyone. I didn't hear about the whole nipplegate thing until the Strikeout thing became so big; it just adds to the evidence that LJ isn't where I want to be right now.

I think LJ doesn't really care about us one way or the other, and I don't have a problem with that. Best Buy doesn't care about me either, but I still shop there, because they have some things I want there.

I do think that LJ seems to be trying to move towards the mainstream, making a bigger business and something more universal. So yes, they do have a problem with those who, as you say, share thoughts outside what dominant culture deems normal, but it's nothing personal.

But for fandom, it means that LJ is no longer going to be providing the services we need. So I hope we can reestablish elsewhere.

I don't hate LJ. I don't want to tick LJ off--I don't think I can and I don't care enough to try. I just hope to go somewhere where my needs as a customer will be met, with the kind of treatment I expect extended toward any customer making use of a a business's service.

[stefanie-bean.livejournal.com]

I feel like we've just met - and I really enjoy reading your posts - so this makes me sad. However, I do understand the principle behind what you are saying.

These are a few of my thoughts, if you don't mind. When I started LJ-ing (is that a word?) it was mainly for myself. I got all POTO fan-girly on 3-4 forums and met people there. Slowly people who read my fanfiction and forum posts wandered over here. Most posted anonymously because they didn't have LJ accounts. Slowly they started getting LJ accounts, and I was glad, because anonymous spam (for sexchats, etc.) started showing up occasionally, and it was just easier to limit comments to registered users instead of having to pick off the spam.

What leads me to stay are the people I've met (like you, and my_daroga, who introduced us.) Another factor is that I've found some really interesting communities here. Even though many of them haven't been updated in a while, or are very sporadic, I still have mined their archives, which have been useful to me for writing.

I did get GJ and IJ accounts (both under the same name, stefanie_bean - feel free to friend me at IJ if you like, even though I don't have anything posted there right now.) Haven't wanted to pay for a JF account so far; maybe I will later.

I went ahead and backed my journals up - don't know if I'll try to "export" them to a new home or not. A great deal of the "meat" of my LJ is in the comments, and if the comments don't export to a new site, there doesn't seem much point in doing it.

Personally, I'm not sure the other sites (GF, IJ, JF) are any kind of absolute safe harbor against this kind of nonsense. There are bigger forces out there which aren't going away: increased puritanism; increased #s of lawsuits and a broken tort system that encourages them; confusing and chaotic child porn/child abuse laws that boil down to "I know it when I see it." These forces are going to pursue people who push the margins with their art everywhere they go.

However, I do understand your desire to "make a stand" by quitting LJ, and at least not including your journal in their "head count." I do hope that wherever you go, you will leave a "forwarding address" so that we can stay in touch!

[tkp.livejournal.com]

-I definitely, definitely have so loved meeting and interacting with the people I've met here. And it's been a pleasure getting to know you. I think we'll be able to stay in touch, if you use your IJ account, and if you don't--well, I'll still visit your LJ. If you don't allow anon. comments, mind if I email if there's anything particularly interesting to discuss?

-You don't have to pay for a JF account if you sign up here. I need to go tell daroga about that.

-Pretty positive there's a method to export your journal with *all* your comments. I'll post a how-to once I do it myself. I will be most sad to lose all the posts in my memories; though if the people who made those posts stay on LJ I'll bookmark their entries, and if they don't I'll find them elsewhere. But I have a lot of random posts memoried, just to keep track!

-I don't think other sites are safe harbors either. I think fandom's best bet is starting their own journal/blogging/archive/site thing, but even that will always be in danger for the very causes you state. But my biggest problem here isn't that LJ is deciding to eliminate some forms of content--that really does suck, but I understand why they're doing it. No, my problem is HOW they're doing it.

-I am not really doing this to make a stand. I really haven't been clear, because I haven't been posting on this issue; eventually I hope to get my thoughts in order and post about it. But I sort of look at it as: I want a particular product from a particular company. They no longer have the quite the product I want, so I go to a different company. Furthermore, when the initial company stopped carrying the particular product I desired, they were disrespectful to customers about it, which makes me disinclined to use their company for any other products I might desire--not because I'm indignant or morally outraged, but because I don't want to have to deal with their bad customer service.

I mean, I'd do the same with a restaurant that had bad service. If I have a bad enough experience there, I don't go back. It's not making a stand; it's exerting my privilege as a sometimes paying customer.

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'll be staying here. I made a post (http://viciouswishes.livejournal.com/677940.html) on my LJ a few days ago about why I'm staying and why I think think both fandom and LJ are at fault on this wank. As always, I don't expect everyone to agree with me, and I probably blamed HP fandom too much at large than pointing out specifics.

I do have other journal accounts at IJ, JF, and GJ, but I seriously doubt I'll be updating them. I don't think that they're greener pastures; they just look like it from the other side of the fence.

[tkp.livejournal.com]

I did see your post. I don't disagree with you so much as feel that you are missing the point. Well, a lot of people who are on the other side of the fence as you are missing the point, too.

It's a point I hope to clarify once I can get my thoughts together and finally post on this issue, but the short version is this:

1) I am not entitled to do whatever I want on my LJ. But I want to do whatever I want on some journal or other. LJ doesn't have to give it to me; I don't have to stay.

2) I'm not trying to "show" LJ by leaving. I'm not trying to make an impact. LJ doesn't offer the service I want any more, and furthermore, I see customers being treated badly for it (not just ones who got deleted. Me, myself, because I'm not getting an explanation for it, and for various other factors described here and here). If I have bad enough service at a restaurant, I don't come back, and it's not because I'm trying to take that restaurant down; it's 'cause I don't want to have to potentially deal with that shit.

3. There's no journaling site anywhere that'll let me do whatever I want, but at some I stand a better chance than at others, and I also stand a chance of being better treated when I am denied it. Oh yes it is hopeful thinking, greener pastures, etc etc, but I'm not going to stop trying because I've had a bad consumer experience at LJ. I stand the best chance at a service fandom creates all on its own, for its own, and I made the decision to leave partly because I believe that fandom can and will do that. Right now, though, IJ has proven it's capacity for potentially better customer service by clarifying its ToS in the wake of the LJ mess, which LJ still has not done.

I don't think everyone feels this way--I see a lot of people wanting to leave due to moral outrage, or because they think they can teach LJ a lesson. I'm just a dissatisfied customer. I would think anyone in fandom would be, but if they're not--well, they can keep dealing with the shitty business as long as they can stand it.

[lilyofgryfindor.livejournal.com]

Hi. I'm completely lost, why are you leaving LJ?

To answer some of your questions, I'm staying b/c I like it here. Anddd, the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist is one can prescribe medicine and the other can't, but I'm not sure which one is which.

[tkp.livejournal.com]

Hey! If you don't know what's going on with Livejournal and the corporation that owns LJ, Six Apart, you can see a brief summary in this comment here. Because of what is happening with LJ/6A, I am dissatisfied with LJ as a customer. I hope that over the next few weeks, or possibly months, I can post more about what I think LJ is doing wrong, why I'm leaving, why I hope my flist and fandom pick up and leave too.

I knew that was the difference too, but I couldn't remember which was which either! Someone clarified it above though--the psychiatrist is the one that can prescribe meds. Thanks :o)

[ravenwings-7.livejournal.com]

Oh, dear. Just when I thought the only hit to flist would be some ruffled feathers and contingency-plan journals. :(

I'm going to stay, at least for a while. Because I like it here (I worked to get my journal the way I like it. The color scheme alone took a week.), and I think that the number of people running over to all of the smaller, less expensive, independently run LJ knockoffs is going to start a chain of events that will start with the prices being raised just a bit to afford new high-capacity servers to keep up with the rush... and end with LiveJournal: The Next Generation. The exact same crap, only five years later. Pessimistic? Hell yes. But at least if I stay, my vu won't be deja-ing, and things might improve.

But I can respect your reasons for saying bye: you're unsatisfied and pissed off, so you're leaving. I can get that, even if it does make me sad because I like you, and I can't even keep up with one flist most of the time let alone two (unless... does IJ do email notifications? If it does, then I could keep track of my friends who've bailed without having to actually check two flists, and cross-posting to a fourth location - I also do Facebook and a student blog - shouldn't be too hard...).

It's the conspiracy theorists in this kerfuffle that bother me. The ones that yammer on about how 6A is trying to oppress us big loser geeks in fandom (and only fandom), because they deleted two journals for posting content that was illegal on multiple levels (Dude, if 6A wanted to oppress us, we'd have been all been reported to copyright lawyers and subsequently slapped with C & D orders).

rahirah, liz_marcs, and viciouswishes & lornelover all managed to sum up some portion of my opinion or another. I may do my own post on the subject. It would probably have roughly the same content as what I've just said here, only much bitchier and with sledgehammer-weight detailing of exactly why I *don't* want LJ's obscenity standards clarified.

Yeah, you heard right. Bitchier than those last two paragraphs. ;) I'm a bit grumpy - it's because I leaped back onto the internets full of Harry Potter love, and fic bunnies, and Firefly rpg glee (http://ravenwings-7.livejournal.com/35375.html because I can't remember the link markup), only to discover that fandom was falling apart right in time for me to have no fun stuff to read and talk about during my only time off until January, only lots and lots of stress. :(

But enough gloom!

I now speak in Cat Macro-ish! I can has snacks whenevers!

I let other people tell me about the news comm, all it gets from me is ignoration!

I... don't watch Mad Men. ::hides:: Is it good?

Jason Isaacs is not the man. He is merely an honorable mention. The man is, in fact, Gary Oldman. Second place goes to Alan Rickman.

Jason Bourne kicks. Ass. Especially the car chases. We have the DVDs - they're some of the relatively few movies that my dad rewatches on a regular basis (compared to Moss and I). I keep meaning to read the books, Moss has been a fan of them for many years.

Pizza Hut! Godfather's is pretty good too.

Joss probably decided that the go-go boots (want them, I does) and crazy high heels of DOOM were degrading for an adult woman. Poor Joss, his heart's in the right place, but he does go a bit overboard sometimes...

[tkp.livejournal.com]

and end with LiveJournal: The Next Generation.

Do you mean you think that eventually we would have the same trouble with IJ too, if it got to be fandom's new home? --I think so too, which is why I am hoping fandom constructs its own journaling service and new homes. Of course there were be problems with THAT, too, some of them legal, but it stands the best chance. The way I see it--fandom, by its very nature, HAS to exist on the fringes, which means as the uh, metaphoric universe expands, fandom has to keep on picking up and moving to the outskirts. And...that sucks, but I'd rather do that than get swallowed by the mainstream.

It's so interesting that you mention rahirah, Liz, viciouswishes, and lornelover that way. I see the first two as fundamentally opposed to the latter two (their recent posts on the issue I mean, not as people). That is to say...a lot of vw's and ll's points are valid, and their are lots of fans behaving stupidly about this. But that doesn't change the fact that aside from whatever our rights are or the fact that LJ is a corporation or blah blah blah, they're still treating customers badly, as rahirah and Liz say. And that's a really good reason to leave, while vw's post and ll's are not reasons to stay, only insights as to why the reasons some people are leaving are stupid.

Yeah, so--definitely agree that people're being stupid, especially in thinking they're oppressed or that LJ is out to get them.

***

I can speak Cat Macro too!

The news comm last time was wanky and full of stupid people, but entertaining. Now it is just wanky and full of stupid people.

I found the first two eps of Mad Men excellent, and unexpectedly really enjoyable (unexpected 'cause I usually don't like shows in which all the characters are disgusting). However, the third ep utterly flubbed for me.

I have loved Gary Oldman since middle school. I have loved Rickman since highschool, so less long, but more ardently. But Isaacs is so cute. He asked JKR if he was gonna get to be in the 7th book because he really wanted Lucius Malfoy to do stuff. Plus he says he's read Lucius fanfic. I just want to pet him.

Yech. I just get so bored during the Bourne car chases.

I love Pizza Hut, but think I'm starting to love Domino's more. I've never tried Godfather's.

Yeah, but Buffy's grown up wardrobe made me sad. I loved being horrified by things she wore in S1 & 2.

To Leave or Not to Leave

[angels-terra.livejournal.com]

Well I am one of the many Lurkers of the community. I do have a LJ and sometimes write in it when I post fics or fanart. But due to my favorite lurking places moving over to IJ, I now have an account over there.

I have FAITH in our community whether it be Buffy/Angel *which is me*, or Buffy/Spike or Angel/Cordy...or which ever your flavor is, because of our websites where we can post links to our journals. From there you can go to the friends page and find others, so we will always be around and able to keep up with one another.

THE fandom will not die unless we stop posting in journals where ever they may be, or stop writing and posting to your websites, or stop making the beautiful Fanart.

So I say dont be sad.... stand up write or design some fanart and Keep the fandom going...cause we will go on .. this is just a place, it is not Fandom (us). The Fandom is where ever we go!!!!

OUR fandom is Forever...that is the whole point....

Terra

[zibbycomix.livejournal.com]

I'm going to respond to the last paragraph....
I'm going to stay on LJ, mostly because I didn't know anything about the controversy, and also because it happened before I became active in LJ (not that it doesn't affect me, but anyway). Also, all of my friends are here... I like LJ... yeah.
As to the other questions:
1) What are cat macros?
2) I have never watched "Mad Men."
3) Jason Isaacs is super sexy and hot! =D
4) I don't know much about the LJ staff people.
5) I never read the news comm, so I don't know.
6) I liked the first two Bourne movies! Well, I liked the first one the best out of all of the Bourne movies, I think.
7) My favorite pizza delivery service is Papa John's.
8) I think LJ would allow Buffy/Angel fanart.
9) I can't spell anything either; don't worry.
10) I think a psychiatrist can prescribe drugs and a psychologist can't.
11) I don't know anything about Buffy or go-go boots. =)
Is the situation better with LJ now?

[tkp.livejournal.com]

1) This is a cat macro, also called a LOLcat:



It's an image of a cat with a caption. The caption is what the cat is saying, but spelled badly, as if the cat didn't know how to spell. There's a traditional spelling for a lot of words, like "hai" for "hi". The font is usually the same.

It's sort of an internet meme. A meme is anything that gets passed around, sort of like chain mail, except that people just pick it up, it isn't specifically distributed. A meme can be a picture, like a LOLcat, or a phrase, like "im in ur base killin ur doodz", and sometimes they are combined. Like ceilingcat is a lolcat, and he says, "im in ur ceilin watchin u masterbate".

Ceiling cat is famous, as is cheeseburger cat, who says, "i can has cheeseburger?" which made the phrase "i can has?" popular.

Sometimes lolcats aren't cats. There's a walrus who goes, "i has a bucket. Ahh, they be stealin mah bucket!", etc.

It's weird and complicated and funny, if you hang around long enough. Here is a wikipedia.com article on lolcats: article. Wikipedia has a lot of internet speak and terms on it, in case that's helpful.

8) The issue with canon Buffy/Angel fanart is Buffy was under the legal age for sex in the show--she slept with Angel when she was 17 in the show. But lj banned pictures depicting minors in sexual situations, which meant fanart showing Buffy and Angel as they were in the show would be banned.

LJ still has this rule.

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