lettered | Oh, so, I meant that, about good bye.

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Oh, so, I meant that, about good bye.

Thought about it a lot, and I'm leaving Livejournal.

That's all dramatic and stuff, but I probably won't be gone until the end of the year. If most people decide to leave, and there's a mass exodus before then, I may be gone earlier. But this journal, my fic journal, and my private backup journal will be gone for certain by January 1, 2008.

I have a lot of stuff to say about the whole LJ/6A debacle, but for some reason every time I start a post on it I just have to get up and walk away from it, give it some time, read lots and lots of Harry/Draco, spend time with my family, or eat ice cream. Can't decide whether I'm too angry about it, depressed perhaps, lazy maybe, or possibly I'm an ostrich? Anyway, during the strikeout in May I felt very energized, but maybe that was because I thought that it was possible that LJ had made a mistake, and after hearing customer complaints, would fix it. In other words, I knew I was going to give Livejournal another chance. Well, I did, but I am still displeased as a customer. So, I take my business elsewhere.

I don't know where. One of the reasons I'm staying on LJ for another few months is that I want to see how many other people leave and where they go. Even if a lot of you leave (which I sekritly hope you will), it will not be all at once, and LJ will still be the place to be in the thick of fandom things for a while. If there is a mass movement, decision making, support/rallying/reasearch/etc to be done, I want to be involved. And if people are going to continue to discuss the issues connected to why I'm leaving, I want to be a part of those discussions. Because I do have a lot to say, and I want to say it to my flist, people who I'm interested in having around wherever I end up.

I'm going to back up the journals I have here and copy them to Insane Journal for now. I'm going to be cross-posting to Insane Journal (where I am tkp) and possibly Journal Fen over the next several months. I hope to gradually phase out: to just post links to fic here, instead of actual fics here, etc. Then I will be gone. I know I can make myself do that, but I know I can't make myself never visit LJ again. If you do decide to stay and not post elsewhere, I may still visit from time to time, but I will not have an account here ever again. I don't want to lose touch with any of you. I mean, well, except you; you're always talking about your grandmother's corns.

So, um, this isn't quite yet goodbye, and won't be for a while. Mostly I'm just posting this because once I say I'll do something, I'll do it. And now I've said it.

Okay, now that announcements are over: what're your thoughts? Leavin' on a jet plane? Why? Staying, why? Cat macros? Why not? Where are you going, if you go, where're you lookin' at, what are your hopes and dreams for fandom future? What did you think of the last ep of Mad Men? Is Jason Isaacs the man, or what? How 'bout that burr86, Barak, and Brad? Does the news comm make you laugh, cry, headdesk, or wha...? Did anyone even like the first two Bourne movies? What's your favorite pizza delivery service? Do you think Livejournal would disallow canon!Buffy/Angel fanart? How come I can't spell misogyny? What's the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist? And the number one question all of us are asking: how come Buffy never wore the go-go boots again?

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Joy. *clings*

Glad to hear you'll be around for awhile. I plan to crosspost to IJ and JF too for the time being. I posted earlier saying I'm not leaving, but I haven't totally made up my mind yet. I'll land where fandom does, and I may phase out too. It depends on where everybody ends up and if I need to juggle multiple flists and just . . . this whole thing makes me sad and exhausted. I understand having to get up and walk away from it. I kind of go back and forth between not being able to look at it and not being able to walk away. I'm pissed at the way lj has treated us and I'm never going to give them money ever again. Like I was telling Meg earlier, I want us to leave, but I want us all to leave together and end up in the same place and . . . that seems very improbable. And it makes me sad.

I think I'm with you on the "phasing out" thing, seeing where it (fandom itself) leads.

I didn't see the last ep of MM yet, as I was at the spa. It's Tivo'd and waiting for me and Maze tomorrow. This LJ debacle is hard to follow from the end backwards. Links of pertinent info? I like the actor who plays Bourne, and the fact that each movie he has less lines and more biceps. I have no good pizza, this is North Cal. LJ will allow B/A fanart if Buffy has body hair. I can't spell misogyny either. It never looks right. A Psychiatrist is an MD and as such can prescribe meds, a Psychologist is a PhD and can't. Buffy lent the boots to Spike, while he was going through his gender searching period. He never returned them. Even right now, they're under Angel's bed at the Hyperion. He doesn't wear them anymore though, because he thinks they make his ankles look fat.

Well, if I choose another journal as my "main" journal it is totally NOT going to be GreatestJournal. Nor will it be JournalFen. (Yes I have a paid JF account but ... nah.)

I'd pick InsaneJournal as my main journal, if I "move" in that sense.

However, I am really enjoying Semagic as a cross-posting tool and I wouldn't leave LJ altogether, because it seems like half my f'list isn't even fannish and won't be leaving.

And since IJ and GJ (I think JF as well) allow responding to comments via email, it won't be that difficult to keep up with folks. Yes, checking different journal friendslists may be a little awkward but even that not so much with the Firefox tabs system.

I *am* however seriously leaning towards not renewing my paid account when it expires. I may revert to Basic w/o ads. After all, I can put 500 iconses on my IJ and they won't vanish or become unusable like they would at GJ. And that's good enough for keeping up with everyone here. And I balk at the idea of giving LJ more of my money. Bah.

Mere rumor so far: 6A may be looking for a new buyer, and this new buyer, who knows, may be more fandom friendly?

Papa John's is my fave pizza delivery service because they make the best pizzas and they deliver reliably within a half hour.

LJ would only disallow canon!Buffy/Angel fanart if Mutant Enemy bitched about it, I'm thinkin'.

You can spell misogyny. You just did, there.

Psychiatrists and psychologists have different degrees and only one of them is allowed to dispense medicines in-office. Um, which is which? I should be going to bed so I won't be googling this up right now ...

Awww, Buffy in go-go boots. ::hearts::

Well, they really looked kinda high-school cheerleaderish and just not right for the more mature adult Buffy, wouldn't you say?

Besides, she probably wore them for Riley. "There might be outfits."

Heh heh heh ...

Dude, you just totally broke my heart right now. Completely ripped it out of my chest.

You know how you always know that things are going to end, they have to because if there's a beginning there's got to be an ending ... this feels like an ending to me. Fandom making a mass exodus to who knows where, every scattering, heading for all available exits. Things will never be the same again. Whether they will be better or worse, who knows, but definitly never the same again. It kinda makes me wanna cry that 6A are such dumb ass wankers. Yeah, I said it 6A, I said it.

I was thinking that I'd cross post to all three journals using whatever availabe software, Semagic, I think. At least until fandom roosted in a new part of the internet, but it seems like there's so many places that people are going. I'll keep LJ just because there are a few non-fannish people that I keep my eyes on. I never had a paid account so I'm sure 6A won't be missing me all that much.

I am worn out by the stupidity of people of late. What the fuck?! Is there something in the water?

I'm with you on the gradual moving away from LJ. At this point, I'm inclined to establish an IJ, but since my LJ is a free account, I'm not closing it immediately. I rarely post in my own LJ due to time constraints, and only opened the account to begin with in order to join the community at writer-con. I've since used it to follow what's going on with my flist. Many of whom are moving to IJ, all of whom, wherever they are moving, are completely disgusted with the latest nonsense going on here.

But, what's happening here in LJ land is simply a part of a bigger, very disturbing, picture of things going on in our society as a whole. We've set up arbitrary lines to substitute for reasoning. And, anything that falls on this side of the line is evil/bad/disgusting/perversion, even if it's Romeo and Juliet (she was 13, after all) because we aren't making any distinctions, just lumping it all in. But if it's on that side of the line, we really don't care about it, even if it is degrading to women, or gays, or persons of color or...well, anyone, really, because it's met the artificial test of being on the "correct" side of the line.

This sort of blind adherence to an arbitrary rule without bothering to distinguish what is and what is not predatory or anti-social, or truly dangerous behavior---well, blind adherence to arbitrary rules never ends well.

Just remember to add me to the Insane Journal equivalent of your flist when we both get there.

I'll be friending you over on IJ, for to keep up with the fic writing.

I'm sticking around here only long enough to finish a couple of WIPs, and then its goodbye, so long suckas and all the rest.

LJ can cross me off it's patron list.

Huh? Okay, I get home and decide to read my flist after a month away and it sounds my my LJ world is slowly ending again. This is not good. I'm going to have to check out the links you provided in an earlier comment to find out what the fuck is going on, but I know if you're leaving it must really be serious. The thought of you leaving LJ makes me deeply sad. This whole debacle -- whatever it is this time -- just makes me feel deeply tired. I got an IJ account during ~~strikethrough~~ and now it sounds like I might have to start actually using it after all. I will definitely be friending you over there ::hugs and tries not to cling::

When this whole debacle started up again, I was very motivated about everyone leaving LJ, but the more I think about it, and the more I read people on my f-list saying "I'm staying," I'm beginning to doubt that it's the right thing for me. I hate to say it because it sounds like I lack faith in fandom, which isn't the case, but I'm just not convinced that we'll be able to recreate the same community and environment we've had here all along. If most people do end up moving definitively, I'll move too, but right now I'm not so sure. I've set up my IJ and GJ, but so far it feels pointless since everyone's still here as well anyway.

I've also really just wanted *everyone* to choose one place to go so I don't have to keep up with multiple friends pages, but if some people are *definitely* staying, and people like you are *definitely* leaving, I think I'm going to have to adjust to spreading myself across two (and hopefully only two) journaling sites. I don't want to lose any of you!

You're the first person on my flist to say for sure that they are leaving, but the rumblings are getting loud enough that yesterday I opened free accounts for myself on both IJ and GJ (anelith in both places). I haven't taken the step of copying my journal to those yet. I guess for me it isn't as important since I don't have fic that people might search for.

I stay for my friends, and if the last of my flist leaves, so do I. I can imagine a day when I visit LJ to occasionally browse for fic... Unfortunately my paid account needed renewal just a few days ago, and rather than deal with the ads I chose to give LJ money once again, since this is still the watering hole for fandom. It will be interesting to see whether that's the last time I do that.

If some of my flist moves to one journal, and the rest stays here, I guess I'll have to keep up with two flists. That will be a bit difficult. I really hope to avoid doing that. Somehow that seems hard. Maybe it's easier than I think it will be.

I...know exactly how you feel. Sadly, I'm paid up until July 2008 (after which I'm dropping down to no-paid, no-ads basic), so I'm stuck here a bit longer.

I'm not entirely sure how I'm going to extract myself from LJ, because it seems at least half the people I really, really want to stay in touch with are remaining here (they all have perm accounts, and so they're basically sitting on LJ's system anyway).

The only immediate action I can take is moving

cubed_music off of LJ and making it an IJ-only com. As for fic...providing the link to an IJ post resolves my issue there. One I finish the three WiPs I've got that are two chapters from the end, I'm going to start doing that.

Like you, I hate this. But unless something major happens in the next six months, I think I'll be massively cutting back my interaction with LJ.

for now, for the forseeable future, i'll stay.

i've already done an lj-flee: nipplegate2006 (http://ljabuse.blogspot.com/2006_06_04_ljabuse_archive.html). me and all my friends packed up, gave lj the finger, and went, mostly, to gj. and then half of us left gj and went to vox. and them some of those went to ij. some came back to lj, like me, with a different user name. the people who had supported me and co-miserated with me all through my pregnancy and birth and the fucked-up-insano-acid-trip that is being a new mom were scattered. friendships that had lasted half a decade just disappeared.

and of course, lj didn't care that we left. because they suck. and we all know they suck, and they started sucking way before the strikehtorugh.

fandom is organizing better. this, in part, is because every member of fandom organizing doesn't have a kid on their tit, and having a kid on yr tit seriously effects the amount of shit you can get done. i've been reading

fandom_flies and links posted in that community, and it sounds like maybe there's enough energy. people and money to create a space where there isn't such a kneejerk reaction to anything that could be construed as quetionable and might therefore cost the farm. i support the efforts.

lj doesn't like us. and when i say us, i'm taking about a group of poeple that extends beyond fandom. i'm talking about anybody who won't just take no for an answer and leave it at that. those who experience life outside of the slim margin the dominant culture deems normal and want to share their thoughts about it. those who get hackles-up, and rightly so, when their freedom is wrangled and threatened. lj fucking hates us. lots and lots of businesses, systems and individuals hate us.

so i say, fuck you, lj. i hate you right back. i hate you so much that when you say plz don't put yr pr0n up here imma say what as that? didn't quite hear, and then bombard you with my filthy smutty fanfic. and maybe pictures too. just to tick you off.

and i will do it until you shut me down. and i hope there are lots of people who will stay here and do it until they shut us down. because, yeah, they could realistically do just that. but it'd be way more trouble, way more of a pr nightmare, way more expensive for lj/6a to have to shut down thousands of journal than to have to deal with the straglers after a mass leaving out.

i don't know. i didn't think i had so much to say.

I feel like we've just met - and I really enjoy reading your posts - so this makes me sad. However, I do understand the principle behind what you are saying.

These are a few of my thoughts, if you don't mind. When I started LJ-ing (is that a word?) it was mainly for myself. I got all POTO fan-girly on 3-4 forums and met people there. Slowly people who read my fanfiction and forum posts wandered over here. Most posted anonymously because they didn't have LJ accounts. Slowly they started getting LJ accounts, and I was glad, because anonymous spam (for sexchats, etc.) started showing up occasionally, and it was just easier to limit comments to registered users instead of having to pick off the spam.

What leads me to stay are the people I've met (like you, and

my_daroga, who introduced us.) Another factor is that I've found some really interesting communities here. Even though many of them haven't been updated in a while, or are very sporadic, I still have mined their archives, which have been useful to me for writing.

I did get GJ and IJ accounts (both under the same name, stefanie_bean - feel free to friend me at IJ if you like, even though I don't have anything posted there right now.) Haven't wanted to pay for a JF account so far; maybe I will later.

I went ahead and backed my journals up - don't know if I'll try to "export" them to a new home or not. A great deal of the "meat" of my LJ is in the comments, and if the comments don't export to a new site, there doesn't seem much point in doing it.

Personally, I'm not sure the other sites (GF, IJ, JF) are any kind of absolute safe harbor against this kind of nonsense. There are bigger forces out there which aren't going away: increased puritanism; increased #s of lawsuits and a broken tort system that encourages them; confusing and chaotic child porn/child abuse laws that boil down to "I know it when I see it." These forces are going to pursue people who push the margins with their art everywhere they go.

However, I do understand your desire to "make a stand" by quitting LJ, and at least not including your journal in their "head count." I do hope that wherever you go, you will leave a "forwarding address" so that we can stay in touch!

Yeah, I'll be staying here. I made a post (http://viciouswishes.livejournal.com/677940.html) on my LJ a few days ago about why I'm staying and why I think think both fandom and LJ are at fault on this wank. As always, I don't expect everyone to agree with me, and I probably blamed HP fandom too much at large than pointing out specifics.

I do have other journal accounts at IJ, JF, and GJ, but I seriously doubt I'll be updating them. I don't think that they're greener pastures; they just look like it from the other side of the fence.

Hi. I'm completely lost, why are you leaving LJ?

To answer some of your questions, I'm staying b/c I like it here. Anddd, the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist is one can prescribe medicine and the other can't, but I'm not sure which one is which.

Oh, dear. Just when I thought the only hit to flist would be some ruffled feathers and contingency-plan journals. :(

I'm going to stay, at least for a while. Because I like it here (I worked to get my journal the way I like it. The color scheme alone took a week.), and I think that the number of people running over to all of the smaller, less expensive, independently run LJ knockoffs is going to start a chain of events that will start with the prices being raised just a bit to afford new high-capacity servers to keep up with the rush... and end with LiveJournal: The Next Generation. The exact same crap, only five years later. Pessimistic? Hell yes. But at least if I stay, my vu won't be deja-ing, and things might improve.

But I can respect your reasons for saying bye: you're unsatisfied and pissed off, so you're leaving. I can get that, even if it does make me sad because I like you, and I can't even keep up with one flist most of the time let alone two (unless... does IJ do email notifications? If it does, then I could keep track of my friends who've bailed without having to actually check two flists, and cross-posting to a fourth location - I also do Facebook and a student blog - shouldn't be too hard...).

It's the conspiracy theorists in this kerfuffle that bother me. The ones that yammer on about how 6A is trying to oppress us big loser geeks in fandom (and only fandom), because they deleted two journals for posting content that was illegal on multiple levels (Dude, if 6A wanted to oppress us, we'd have been all been reported to copyright lawyers and subsequently slapped with C & D orders).

rahirah,

liz_marcs, and

viciouswishes &

lornelover all managed to sum up some portion of my opinion or another. I may do my own post on the subject. It would probably have roughly the same content as what I've just said here, only much bitchier and with sledgehammer-weight detailing of exactly why I *don't* want LJ's obscenity standards clarified.

Yeah, you heard right. Bitchier than those last two paragraphs. ;) I'm a bit grumpy - it's because I leaped back onto the internets full of Harry Potter love, and fic bunnies, and Firefly rpg glee (http://ravenwings-7.livejournal.com/35375.html because I can't remember the link markup), only to discover that fandom was falling apart right in time for me to have no fun stuff to read and talk about during my only time off until January, only lots and lots of stress. :(

But enough gloom!

I now speak in Cat Macro-ish! I can has snacks whenevers!

I let other people tell me about the news comm, all it gets from me is ignoration!

I... don't watch Mad Men. ::hides:: Is it good?

Jason Isaacs is not the man. He is merely an honorable mention. The man is, in fact, Gary Oldman. Second place goes to Alan Rickman.

Jason Bourne kicks. Ass. Especially the car chases. We have the DVDs - they're some of the relatively few movies that my dad rewatches on a regular basis (compared to Moss and I). I keep meaning to read the books, Moss has been a fan of them for many years.

Pizza Hut! Godfather's is pretty good too.

Joss probably decided that the go-go boots (want them, I does) and crazy high heels of DOOM were degrading for an adult woman. Poor Joss, his heart's in the right place, but he does go a bit overboard sometimes...

Well I am one of the many Lurkers of the community. I do have a LJ and sometimes write in it when I post fics or fanart. But due to my favorite lurking places moving over to IJ, I now have an account over there.

I have FAITH in our community whether it be Buffy/Angel *which is me*, or Buffy/Spike or Angel/Cordy...or which ever your flavor is, because of our websites where we can post links to our journals. From there you can go to the friends page and find others, so we will always be around and able to keep up with one another.

THE fandom will not die unless we stop posting in journals where ever they may be, or stop writing and posting to your websites, or stop making the beautiful Fanart.

So I say dont be sad.... stand up write or design some fanart and Keep the fandom going...cause we will go on .. this is just a place, it is not Fandom (us). The Fandom is where ever we go!!!!

OUR fandom is Forever...that is the whole point....

Terra

I'm going to respond to the last paragraph....
I'm going to stay on LJ, mostly because I didn't know anything about the controversy, and also because it happened before I became active in LJ (not that it doesn't affect me, but anyway). Also, all of my friends are here... I like LJ... yeah.
As to the other questions:
1) What are cat macros?
2) I have never watched "Mad Men."
3) Jason Isaacs is super sexy and hot! =D
4) I don't know much about the LJ staff people.
5) I never read the news comm, so I don't know.
6) I liked the first two Bourne movies! Well, I liked the first one the best out of all of the Bourne movies, I think.
7) My favorite pizza delivery service is Papa John's.
8) I think LJ would allow Buffy/Angel fanart.
9) I can't spell anything either; don't worry.
10) I think a psychiatrist can prescribe drugs and a psychologist can't.
11) I don't know anything about Buffy or go-go boots. =)
Is the situation better with LJ now?

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To Leave or Not to Leave

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Ugrently need your help!