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Help? If possible.
This year I am reapplying to grad school. I'm applying to all the schools to be admitted into two different programs: the Creative Writing MFA and the English MA. I feel like if I don't get into the former I probably have more of a chance with the latter. So far, the schools I'm applying to are:
Washington University in St Louis, University of Florida, University of Texas, New York University, University of Houston, Saint Mary's College of California.
I'm also looking into University of Michigan, Otis College of Art and Design, School of the Art Institute of Chicago, University of Notre Dame, University of New Orleans, Emerson College, University of Massachusetts at Amherst, University of New Hampshire, Rutgers University, City College of New York, The New School, Sarah Lawrence College, Syracuse University, Ohio State University, Chatham University, University of Pittsburgh, University of South Carolina, Vanderbuilt University, Goddard College, George Mason University, Hollins University, University of Virginia, Virginia Tech, anywhere that does MFAs in Creative Writing in Alaska, University of New Brunswick, University of British Columbia anywhere that does MFAs in Creative Writing in Canada, University of East Anglia in the UK, anywhere that does MFAs in Creative Writing in any English speaking country such as the UK, Australia, or New Zealand, and English MA programs anywhere in Europe, particularly the Netherlands, Switzerland, and Poland, and English MA programs anywhere in the world, including Argentina, South Africa, India, China, Russia, and Egypt.
Um, so. The purpose of this post is to ask if anyone has any advice on any of these universities, any of these locations, any English MA programs, any Creative Writing MFA programs, any grad programs, getting into grad programs, writing portfolios, and stuff. I'm just trying to gather any info I can on the process of choosing and applying, as I have failed so spectacularly in the past.
So how 'bout that Buffy 6 comic?
Washington University in St Louis, University of Florida, University of Texas, New York University, University of Houston, Saint Mary's College of California.
I'm also looking into University of Michigan, Otis College of Art and Design, School of the Art Institute of Chicago, University of Notre Dame, University of New Orleans, Emerson College, University of Massachusetts at Amherst, University of New Hampshire, Rutgers University, City College of New York, The New School, Sarah Lawrence College, Syracuse University, Ohio State University, Chatham University, University of Pittsburgh, University of South Carolina, Vanderbuilt University, Goddard College, George Mason University, Hollins University, University of Virginia, Virginia Tech, anywhere that does MFAs in Creative Writing in Alaska, University of New Brunswick, University of British Columbia anywhere that does MFAs in Creative Writing in Canada, University of East Anglia in the UK, anywhere that does MFAs in Creative Writing in any English speaking country such as the UK, Australia, or New Zealand, and English MA programs anywhere in Europe, particularly the Netherlands, Switzerland, and Poland, and English MA programs anywhere in the world, including Argentina, South Africa, India, China, Russia, and Egypt.
Um, so. The purpose of this post is to ask if anyone has any advice on any of these universities, any of these locations, any English MA programs, any Creative Writing MFA programs, any grad programs, getting into grad programs, writing portfolios, and stuff. I'm just trying to gather any info I can on the process of choosing and applying, as I have failed so spectacularly in the past.
So how 'bout that Buffy 6 comic?
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I've been really upset about this. It's been hanging over my head for--well, years now, and whenever I think about it I just go into this spiral of self doubt and yeah, I haven't been doing well lately. I just can't tell you how much you, and the responses to this post, have made me feel so different about it all. I was researching and researching, but because I wasn't *talking* to people I still felt so lost. Now that I look at it I feel like I was *trying* to trap myself, because I wouldn't talk about it, I thought it was stupid to post about it, I thought no one could help me, I thought doing a post like this was really a last ditch effort. I really can't express how much better I feel now.
ILU KITA.
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You have crazy brain sometimes, just like I do. It's always helpful to get outside it for a while. I'm really happy I could help in some way.
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Exactly. It's really scary sometimes how much I *don't* do that. For one thing, I suck at asking for help. I'll be lost for hours and hours rather than stop five minutes and ask for directions. Why? Crazy brain!
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*relates so hard omg*
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I'll look into University of Victoria. Do you know anything at all about the English and/or Creative Writing? What are you studying?
My cousin is at McGill right now.
And thanks so much!
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*is overly enthusiastic and a little creeeeeeepy*
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I'm not sure I'm going to apply anywhere that I can't also apply for Creative Writing, since I do need to limit the places I apply, but I'll definitely look into UVIC--I know some grad programs can suck, and since yours comes so highly recommended that's a lot of points in the pro column!
What're you going to do with your English degree?
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God, I know exactly what you mean. I actually had a pretty bad undergrad experience for that reason.
I always thought I'd retire my Wild Life Of Authorly Disrepute as a professor, but I thought it would be when I was old enough to shake my cane at all the ...well, mostly it's the arrogance that drives me buggy!
My mom is a teacher too, at high school. I've thought about doing that too, but the main thing is, I want to be a writer in my free time, whatever I do, and teaching grade school is exhausting. I'm afraid I wouldn't have the energy to create original fiction if I taught that, whereas if you're a prof you can have a much more lenient schedule.
Middle school is the most strenuous! That is going to be such a challenge, but so rewarding too. I know exactly what you mean about the moment kids figure something out. My mom teaches art, and it's at...a kind of low income, underprivileged school, and when the kids realize that they can DO this, create beautiful things--sometimes it can change their whole lives, and I've seen it happen. It's so wonderful. I'm glad you want to do something like that!
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And along the lines of college students sometimes equal OHGOODLORDWHYAREN'TYOUDEDFROMDUMBYET -- in my FOURTH YEAR class on Gender and Sanctity in the middle ages, there were a LOT of people who needed to have the idea of the holy trinity explained. At length. Also, in my contemporary Canadian Lit course (that prof is a whole 'nother story...groan...) the majority of the class was shocked -- shocked! -- at the face that in the novel set in Rural, coastal Newfoundland pre-WW2, there were tensions btw Catholics and Pratestants! How do you get to that level in school and NOT KNOW THESE THINGS ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH....
Ok, deep breaths. ALSO, I'm loving 'Another One Like It Tomorrow' -- i keep forgetting to leave feedback! It is so amazing -- my mind, she is blown.
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But I had the opposite problem as you in college. Like, I felt like the kids there were ...snobs. And most of them were rich and white a privileged and went to these ritzy private schools when they where in grade school. I didn't. I went to the school my mom teaches at, where sometimes my teachers barely spoke English, where *all* the classic lit reading I did was on my own, because in senior English the assigned reading was Harry Potter. (Which I still resent, even though it was then and there my HP love was founded, and I'm lovin' your HP icons btw. The Sorcerer's Stone, though, is NOT what Senior AP English students should be reading.)
So I got to college, and I got a bunch of people asking me stuff like, "How could you not know that?" and "how did you even get into this school?" and "I thought you were smart". But that I mean, is understandable. If you've had a good education it's weird when people around you haven't. But what I *really* hated was the cultural aspect. Like, you're déclassé or obviously unenlightened if you like Blockbuster movies, as opposed to indie films, or if you read fantasy, as opposed to Sarte, or if you don't follow politics and current events, or if you write fanfiction. Good grief.
Sorry for the rant. I really detested that aspect of college and should never talk about it.
HEE. Thanks so much--glad you like the fic!
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I love fanfiction and Blockbuster movies. Also, come visit me! I keep trying to get
HEY! COME TO OUR WEDDING!!!
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Her B/A site is here: http://www.yseultspassion.com/
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Thanks <3
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Otherwise, all I got is that Chicago's a beautiful and very cold city (ooh! If you visit I can show you some amazing bookstores), and Pittsburgh depresses me. On the other hand, it's the town that produced August Wilson, so there must be good parts.
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-Your writing sample is the most important part of your app, so go over it a lot, and have old teachers look at it.
-Your GREs (including math) affect financial aid, so keep that in mind.
-Call the admissions officer in the English department and pester them with questions ("Where do your students generally go for PhDs?" etc.) to show that you're interested in the program.
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I hope you don't mind if I pepper you with more questions if I come up with them. You needn't feel obliged to bug your parents with them, but you don't know what a comfort it is to know someone who knows people who know about this stuff.
This stuff is really scary and driving me crazy!
Thanks so much, hon.
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Also, I want you to move to Chicago, but that's neither here nor there. You and Fod should make a support group.
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I can't believe how stressful this is. I've tried twice and gotten rejected, and I am *so* unused to getting rejected that it makes me feel like it's pointless to try. Which is so stupid, femme. I especially because before I've always thought I was so headstrong and never give up and try try try again.
I've been wigging about this for years, and for this past month it's felt like it's come to a head and I've never been this much of an emotional wreck before as I have been this past month. And now I'm spilling my guts, but now that I've done this post I just feel so much more hopeful.
It's funny how much some of the schools I'm thinking about applying to are influenced by people I know being in the area. I was thinking of you when I was thinking of the Chicago Art Institute. My mom did an art workshop there this summer and she said Chicago rocked her mommy socks.
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*blush*
When I imagine an academia filled with mes and Fods I catch my breath. Although imagining more than one me is kind of overwhelming, a bit. :P
I just...I think you are so brave to be persevering. And I'm so glad that you are. I'm also so glad that yourself to support from all of us. Rejection might well be my biggest fear. I'm not sure.
But places that wouldn't want you...I don't think I'd want you there, or you'd want you there. That's a platitude but I just. That's how I try to deal with rejection personally.
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I love Buffy season 8, issue 6 and I blab about it here.
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I love the comic too! OMG, so much. I agree with most of your points. I'm going to have to do my own post and then comment on yours and follow the links in the comments to yours, because I really want to talk about it now! Eee! It really feels akin to having new BtVS.
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Thanks so much! I'll definitely take you up on getting that beer and/or emailing if I visit or think of any questions.
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Just to be above board at the outset: I don't recommend MA in English programs when all you get at the end is an MA. Generally they tend to be cash cows for the PhD part of the program (assuming there is one), generating funding for students who are not you (if you are applying only to the MA part/MA track). Or they tend to be directly focused on a particular specialized group; e.g., there are some good MA in English programs designed for people who are doing a dual MA/teaching program, or MA/publishing program. For those with such goals, the programs can be fantastic (though if you're interested in publishing, there are specific programs for that, like Radcliffe's summer publishing program, that would be even better).
If you are indeed set on going to an MA-only program, and you just want to study literature, one of the few places I would recommend is Georgetown. They have an MA program, but no PhD counterpart, so you're not competing for resources/attention/time with people who are going to make careers there, with students who are going to get priority over you because they're moving towards professionalized roles. At a place like Georgetown (which has a nice, well-rounded program historically) the professors and advisers will have only you/your cohort(s) to focus upon, and that's a very good thing.
Of course, you may be thinking of MA/PhD programs, in which case I have an entirely different rundown of advice to give -- let me know.
My main advice, generally -- don't go to school just to go to school. I'm *not* suggesting that's what you're doing, because you could well have a really considered plan here. But it's an issue worth considering briefly whatever your reasoning for applying to graduate school. Apply to and attend a graduate school if you have some very specific goals in mind: if you're using an MA program as a jumping off point to getting into a PhD program, or to see if you would *want* to continue on in a PhD program; if you're using an MA program to go to a specific career (teaching, publishing) that the program feeds into with advising and career support included; or if you're using an MFA program to work on getting connected/getting agents (not so much for the writing workshops -- if the latter is the case, take writing classes instead, seriously).
A good across the board piece of advice is that you should apply based on ho you want to work with -- I think this is particularly important for MFA programs, since you would finish your thesis/work of fiction/work of non-fiction, etc., under the advisement of someone who will be one of the main people through whom you make connections. For MA programs, consider who teaches MA/first-year classes, who will be on leave if it is a one year program (start asking now, before you spend the application fee), who might mentor you depending on which field you choose. Don't choose a program that's strong overall if it is weak in the area that most interests you. You're not looking at schools as such, at how well-ranked each college or university is, but rather how well ranked *your* program is, and further, *your* area of specialization specifically. If you like Modernism, it'll do you no good if the program is strong in Medieval Studies and not much else. And make sure the person/mentor you'd like to work with actually, you know, works with people. I've been in two grad programs in which people found their ideal adviser didn't actually advise -- way better to know about something like that beforehand!
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My reasons for going to grad school kind of are going to school just to go to school, but at the same time, I've considered the reasons you state. I mean, the bottom line is, I want to be a writer. I've always wanted that, and you don't need a grad degree to do it. So senior year of undergrad, I applied to grad school, but it was yeah, just to apply, and when I didn't get in I thought, okay, I'll take a year of and write my big book and get it published! But obviously...that hasn't happened yet.
But what I always thought I'd do *after* I was an established writer was--well, travel the world and do a bunch of random shit, but I always thought I'd END UP, you know, after all my wild years, getting a phD in English and becoming a professor, and still writing on the side. Since again, my wild year plans have not exactly panned out, I feel like I should seize the school option because it gives me structure and it's something I've always wanted; I just didn't think I'd be doing it right now.
Anyway, the point is, I do want a phD in English, and I did not know that AT ALL about the MA programs, and thank you so, so much for letting me know about that. Seraphcelene says below that she wishes she'd known that too!
So, I'm interested in an English PhD, and one I can use to be a professor afterwards. Though I've always been interested in being an editor, too. God, I really do seem to be all over the place.
As for the MFA program--yes, the reason I'm interested in it is definitely for the connections. I've heard from many quarters that you do not need the degree to write, and I heartily believe that since a. many have published before CW MFAs were even in existence, and b. I feel like I can already write! So it's for the connections, and also because of the timing thing--because at this point in my life I really wanted to only be writing, and I wanted to do the English phD later. But I'm starting to think maybe that's not good reasoning.
Thanks for the heads up about Georgetown. Since I *am* interested in the phD, that's probably not what I'm looking for, but since I haven't researched the English programs much at all I didn't know I should be looking for MA programs that fed directly into phD programs; I'm woefully uninformed.
Also thanks for the advice on looking into the program and advisers specifically. My s-i-l went into linguistics and had a crap adviser at her first grad program, so crap that her life was miserable and she changed schools. I knew that, and yet hadn't thought about talking to students and stuff and getting opinions on the advisers before applying.
So, I'm thinking of MA/PhD programs, what advice do you have on that? And thanks again, so much.
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Do you want to chat online or speak on the phone sometime? I have unlimited long distance (as long as you're in the U.S. -- I think you are) and it may help to speak directly so we can have a back and forth about particulars. If not, no worries -- I can give a condensed version in comments.
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Thanks so much for your offer of help; I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. I'd love to chat online--I suck at the phone and would just grunt at you a lot (ask Sue!). I'm jsunshiny on AIM, but if you have another messenger I can install it. Um, if you want to say a time any time is fine with me.
Thanks again!
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Oh good -- chatting it is, then. I'll add you on AIM the next time I'm on it. I've been forgetting to use that chat client because I stopped my AOL service. Oh, and on AIM, I'm ezbake88. I'm also on gmail chat as entrenous88 (and with that same name, on YIM).
Today and the next are busy, but maybe sometime this weekend we can connect. If we don't end up catching one another in the next few days, let's make a more specific plan, if that sounds good.
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That sounds excellent! I'm joy.tkp on gmail. I'll probably see you on there this weekend. Thanks so much, hon; this means a lot to me.
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I will leave you with three pieces of GENERAL advice:
1 - drop your list of potential schools to 5. If you apply to every school on your list, you'll need a loan to pay the application fees.
2 - think about what you want to do with the degree: teach, write, teach & write. That will help you focus on your degree choice, which in turn will help you focus on a smaller number of schools.
3 - where do you want to live for the next three years: city/country/suburb? US/Abroad? If you don't like the city you're in, you're gonna HATE grad school. Take a trip there, test it out, see if you like the school, the city, the program, the people.
For example: I spent a year of my life in one grad program that I never finished. I hated the school, I hated the program, I hated the profs, and I hated the other students. Fortunately I found another grad program, in another city that I liked well enough to finish. Ironically, the cheaper program was better than the more expensive one.
Good luck in making what may be the most important decision in your life.
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1 - kita said that too. Most of the stuff I've read says to apply to like 10, but that is for Creative Writing. Creative Writing programs are *very* selective, and most the stuff say you should apply to that many just to make sure you might actually get into one. Gah. I don't know what to do about that now!
2 - teach and write! Okay, cool, thanks.
3 - Yes, location is definitely a huge issue on the pros/cons of the schools I'm looking at. My s-i-l is at a grad program in Gainsville, Florida right now. It's an excellent program, and despite some of the attitudes of the people there it's exactly what she wanted academically. But she HATES Gainsville, and so does my brother, her husband. However I'm thinking of applying there because the location scores high points for having him and her around. I would be happy living anywhere with them, I think.
Thank you so much. I'll definitely take into consideration the things you've said!
Good luck in making what may be the most important decision in your life.
Eek!
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However, NYU is hellishly expensive, and everything that entrenous88 said about the MA cash cow applies there. I'd suggest going the PhD route with that school if you're going for an MA in English. They revamped the program just as I was leaving so I know that it's been expanded quite a bit. I don't have any experience with the MFA program that doesn't involve good time party shenanigans. SO ....
OH, and if you went to NYU, I would totally come visit you and we could run around the city like wild and crazy wimmen. woot!!
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I have a friend who teaches in the MFA program and I can give you her info if you're interested.
GOD, HOW DID I NOT KNOW THIS BEFORE? I've applied twice to the MFA program at NYU, and twice I've been waitlisted. At all the other schools, I was rejected, so I've looked at that as my best chance. I talked to my undergrad profs about it, one who had NYU connections but not with the MFA program, and she kept saying to me, "Find someone who knows someone whose involved with the faculty for the program, and talk to them, talk to them, talk to them. Find a connection and exploit it. MWAHAHAHA." Okay so she didn't cackle maniacally. But I totally suck at like...anything to do with networking. I am *so* shy and so bad at cold calls and I never did get into contact with anyone working there.
Erm, long way of saying, yes I am interested in her info. And if I didn't love you forever already I would totally love you forever for that. YAY.
Thanks for the advice about the phD program. I was interested in a PhD, but didn't know I should be looking for MA prgorams that fed into PhD programs; I thought you could and should do them separately. I'm woefully under informed; mostly I've been researching the MFA. I'll definitely do more research on that because I am definitely applying to NYU again.
Also, NYU has this English program you can apply to where you get the MA in English, but with a "focus" on creative writing. I don't know about that; I'll have to look into it.
It would be so awesome if you came to NYU to visit. I thought if I went to school anywhere in CA, I would come stalk you and you would have NOWHERE TO HIDE. It would be so crazy and awesome, and there would be tango and roses in our teeth and lots of margaritas.
Thanks so much, sweetie. <3
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You and me both, mamacita! It's totally the pits and I'm no good at it, either.
You better believe it, look out!!
Meanwhile, I'm sending the information tonight, kay!
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That said, I do know about Washington University in St. Louis in a general sense (not English-program specific). I can tell you that it is a phenomenal school and I would have gone there in a heartbeat if I could have afforded it (or for grad school, gotten in-- I didn't apply there because my research interests didn't match, but I'm not sure I would have been accepted). I don't know of a single Wash U grad who isn't gainfully employed in a very good job-- the alumni base is fantastic. The campus is pretty, which I think you can expect with most of those schools. And finally, it is located right by Forest Park which is the prettiest place in St. Louis and the third largest city park in the country.
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Selfishly, I'd love to get you out on the East Coast. New Brunswick, NYU, UMass (UMass! UMass!), don't care.