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Dollhouse 1.01
The main trouble with this show is that it takes place in The Real World.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer supposedly took place in The Real World, but very rarely. I mean, that series started by telling you it was not Real, but rather a spoof of both horror movies and highschool. I still think it had the best pre-credit bit for a pilot ever. And then there was this girl with superpowers, and vampires. And while the vampires and superpowers were already there because of the movie, that was actually a great way to start the series, rather than trying to convince us first that Buffy was a Real Girl. What happened in that show was that we slowly realized despite the show not occurring in the Real World, these were Real People.
Sunnydale was never meant to be a Real Town, and the stupidest parts of the show were when there were explanations for how Sunnydale fit in the real world, or how Sunnydale might be Real (i.e., why wasn't everyone aware that there were vampires, or that their town was on a Hellmouth). Or anything to do with the Initiative, as if national government had any place in that show whatsoever (whereas municipal government--i.e. the Mayor--made perfect sense).
Firefly, of course, was even more simply Unreal, and by its very premise had license to pick and choose Real World elements and weave it into a new world fantasy.
Dollhouse has a premise that suggests unreality, mindwipes, memory adjustment, yada yada, but it's definitely supposed to be the Real World. Now, you say, Torchwood has mindwipes yada yada, and it's not as fantastic as say, BtVS, but it works. Let me clarify by saying TW does not work for me at almost anything; I don't like the show very much. But in this respect--and I think the respect I'm talking about might be genre?--TW does fine. It does not bring Real Government into it. The government on TW is fake government; it's a fantasy government constructed by both TW and DW, and we barely ever see it (if at all. In DW we see the PM, that's it. In TW I don't think we even see that, we just see UNIT which is apparently a branch of the government [wait, is TW a branch of the government?], but anyway it's not government either). And hostage situations, child abuse, and Secret Agents on TW all have aliens. So it's all unreal, and makes it's own kind of sense. TW isn't the best example; I've had some trouble with the ideas of just how real and unreal they're meant to be, but it was the first example that came to mind. Besides, despite it's screwy logic and very wrong unadmitted date rape sequences, it does a lot better at what I'm talking about than Dollhouse has so far.
I felt like Dollhouse had these real elements it was trying to bring in. Businessmen (real businessmen, not the fake businessmen who make no sense, like David Nabbit on Angel), and kidnappings, and Helo in what appears to be some government agency or something--is he meant to be police/FBI/CIA/Secret Service/whatever (am a little confused)? Not to mention slave trade and child abuse. But then you've got this sci fi premise--which is okay to have in the real world! It is okay to have a Real World show with sci/fi fantasy elements going on, like those ones about prescient crime-solvers who see crimes happen or whatever, all those shows that aren't very good anyway.
But the thing is--it's Joss. I never went to Whedon for anything this real, and I'm not sure I trust him to pull it off, and I'm not sure I want him to, or anyway that I want to watch it. It's not that Buffy didn't have real, as I said. It was so real, it did talk about things like child abuse, and it talked about grief, and apathy, and sexuality both healthy and unhealthy, it talked about family both ugly and beautiful, it talked about all those real things. But it never expected me to take the actual premise and put it in a world that couldn't hold it.
I still don't know whether the world Whedon has created can hold his Dollhouse, but something didn't feel right, felt off to me. I have more to say about the show in general, but I think I will wait until the next ep to pass more judgment.
All that said, *chin in hands*, what did you think?
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I'm a lot more worried about the world outside the premise--everything that is not Dollhouse, which seems to be taking place in another genre.
Well, we'll see how it goes. I was totally stoked about the pilot, and not completely disappointed. I missed the funny, and quirky dialogue, and characters I could immediately connect to in some small way, but other things (again, premise, I have total Dealing With Mind Control Issues kink) were totally on my buttons.
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But this? No. I don't like the premise and I think you nailed the Real World aspects on the head and why it didn't fit. Plus, I can't stand Eliza or Amy :/
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I love Eliza, and Amy Acker, and it's nice to see them both back in the mix! I just hope this is something that Joss can pull off. He is best at drawing human emotion from inhuman situations, so maybe he'll really make it work well.
I'm looking forward to watching the second episode so that I can get more of a feel for what the show is aiming to do/be.
Did any of that make sense?
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"Governmenty" is a great word, and you hit it exactly; DH feels like it's trying to be that way and I'm not sure it's hitting it's mark.
I like government conspiracy if something can make me believe it. To do that it doesn't have to be realistic; I'm well aware fake government pervades many governmenty entertainment I have liked! But it has to feel like lots of research has been done and the writers know a lot about the mechanics of it I don't. I'm sure CSI and definitely House are unrealistic, but I find myself believing them when they say they're CSIs or doctors, and that's what matters to me.
I did watch a lot of ALIAS, which had the genre problem. But at first it worked because it had a 007 feel; it was about one Super Agent and not The Agency. But later it became about working for the actual CIA, and that's sorta when the show lost me.
But anyway, I should've prefaced this post with a, "I am really excited about this show, and I put a lot of trust in Whedon, and I'm willing to watch all 13 episodes before saying yea or nay. And even if I say nay I'll probably still watch it, because it's Faith I mean Dushku." HEE.
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I think Dollhouse is maybe lacking that, absolutely. The way it is written doesn't feel organic enough. hmm.
And I know what you mean- I'm really excited about Dollhouse too, and I really enjoyed it, but I feel like I keep picking little holes or questioning elements of it! I think when you are in fandom or have been involved in fandoms, your brain just tends to be very analytical of television/books/movies etc- poor Dollhouse has only given us one episode so far so of course we're going to analyse it intently! It is our nature :)
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I'm not particularly bothered by the fact that the pieces of the showverse aren't fitting together seamlessly as of yet, mostly because it's still early goings and also, as long as I have an interesting premise that I can explore and characters that I love, I will be content. (Case in point: still watching Heroes, even though plot-wise it's gone to the dogs.) I was afraid Dollhouse would be too sciencey for me, since I'm really not into scientific elements: can't read sci fi, can't watch space shows - not even Firefly, the only notable exceptions for me were Star Wars and Star Trek: Voyager. I actually fare better with universes where I don't have to get caught up in the whys and hows of their workings, so... uh... what will probably be a massive negative for most people probably won't bother me. <_<
So yeah, I liked it, but I'm one of those simpletons who is entertained by those shows that you say "aren't very good anyway", so my opinions are extremely unlikely to chime with those of viewers who look for deeper meaning. ;) I also watch American Idol! I am one of the unwashed masses, I have no taste, I will go quietly back to my corner nao. <_<
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I love sci fi. I'm interested in why you could watch SW and not Firefly; that's different!
I should also have said that I didn't like the shows I'd seen with sci fi premises in the real world, like when I mentioned prescient crime fighters, not that they weren't any good. I get excited about shows like that and then am disappointed, because a lot of them de-emphasize the sci fi, and emphasize the crime. This frustrates me because the crime element is commercially successful, so that's why I feel like they're doing it, but the crime element doesn't interest me at all. But that's me, not the quality of the show. Unless the show is selling out to get more viewers, but I really don't know what the shows do, and I've probably liked shows that were sell outs ;o)
Anyway, what I mean to say is, I don't think enjoying certain shows makes people plebs or unwashed masses or anything like that. I like some shitty books and McDonald's. Doesn't mean my judgment is flawed or that I have no taste. So, I wasn't trying to say that about what anyone else likes.
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About sci fi and me - see, I have this theory. I think Star Wars is an exception for me because I was exposed to it at such an early age, when I hadn't yet formed any general genre impressions, or maybe I just love it because of Yoda, and lightsabers, and the ewoks that speak Tagalog (Philippines represent!). The theory also explains my interminable fondness for a great number of vintage robot animes. <_< (I love Robotech! And Voltes V! And... pretty much every other robot cartoon I saw as a child, rly. XD) It does not really explain why I loved Voyager, though, or why I can still read Star Wars novels when I can't read any other sci fi stuff.
I don't know what it is about sci fi shows, I just can't seem to latch on to them and I don't know why. It's a bit frustrating, because I've been recced so many books and shows that sound great, but when I try to read or watch... nothing happens for me. It makes me sad! :(
Do you count something like Eureka as sci fi, though? I liked that! And I guess Heroes is sci fi in its own way. Maybe it's just space shows I have a hard time loving. <_<
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I also don't really need a show to have everything right to enjoy it. I'm one of those people that likes what I like. If I like it, I can enjoy it despite some of it's failings. I mean, I have my limits. Seasons 2 and 3 of Dark Angel, anyone?
Right now I'm just waiting to see.
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I don't have to have a show have everything right to enjoy it either; witness the troubles with BtVS I mentioned in the post, and that was only about a third of what was really wrong with the show. But BtVS is still my favorite show ever, and I don't think it can get much better. Except for maybe Disney's Gargoyles (problematic in the extreme!) or BSG (varies).
I like to talk objectively about how things could be better, or what is wrong, but it doesn't always have bearing on my enjoyment. For instance I've also seen shows I can't nitpick at all which I just don't like (Law and Order).
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I don't know. If it weren't for Whedon's name attached to Dollhouse, I wouldn't be watching it. I'm not drawn to the premise, but I generally like the stories he tells (even/especially when he tells them over and over again), so I'm giving it a shot. I don't think the pilot was stellar, but I don't think Whedon pilots usually are, and I think there was some network interference with this one. I'll watch a few more episodes.
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Yeah! That sounds like part of what I'm talking about.
I really like the premise, and I'm excited to see what happens. I'm definitely sticking with it for a while--but I would even if I didn't like the premise, because of what you say re: Whedon.
even/especially when he tells them over and over again
EXACTLY. Omg I love the things he gets stuck on. His characters get stuck on them too, which makes them very real people.
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Locating Dollhouse in the Real World will be problematic for all the reasons that you mention, however, I wonder how long and to what extent Dollhouse will be allowed to remain in the Real World. Joss has a habit of narrowing his storylines, creating an increasingly insular, and sometimes claustrophobic (see Angel S4) world. So even though events will occur in the World, I'm curious to see how he will insulate the narrative, what trappings of the world at large will remain.
It really is too early, I think. Although ... if this hadn't been a Mutant Enemy Production I probably wouldn't tune in next week to how it progresses. There wasn't enough in that first episode to really pique my interest. It may be that TPTB are hedging their bets on Whedon's fanbase and the attraction of Dushku as lead. That doesn't seem especially smart, but I'm willing to give the show a shot until it turns into something that I'm really not interested in. Plus it comes on right after Terminator so it's not like it's all that big a deal for me to NOT turn the channel.
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This is a very interesting point, you're absolutely right. Joss is very 'good' at ignoring the rest of the Real World in favour of his own vision, i.e. dropping an airport right in the middle of Sunnydale hee. Of course these things have always been quite tongue in cheek and fit with the Buffy aesthetic. It'll be interesting to see how this pans out for Dollhouse.
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Of course, the premise for Dollhouse is dependent upon interaction with exteriors. So, production must be focused, to some extent, on keeping Echo in The World. Dollhouse could turn out to be a very different kind of animal.
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I'm particularly fascinated by this because I don't care about place. Like, at all. I don't care about the outside world, really. I have whole posts on this, and I could go on forever about it probably, knowing me. But anyway, maybe what makes me uncomfortable about Dollhouse is that it has an Outside World, and I didn't expect that from Whedon, so was uncomfortable with it. And maybe Whedon is a little uncomfortable with it too.
And the thing about Firefly was the Outside world could all be suited to fit Serenity; I mean the Outside was constructed for the Interior World. You can't do that in Dollhouse because the Exterior there is Our World, which viewers know, and that means you can't mess with it. Or anyway the pilot made it look like the Exterior World was Our World, and that was difficult for me.
ARGH I have so many thoughts on this! I'd love to look at the ways in which the Exterior was presented in Firefly, and how much it really focused on the Interior, i.e. how claustrophobic it was and how claustrophobic it could have become, how that might have happened.
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But now you mention it, I fell in love with BtVS because someone told me Angel's story up to S1 of AtS, not because S1 was so great. I thought it had a lot of good stuff but I wasn't utterly in love with it until Prophecy Girl. Though The Pack and Angel were good stuff indeed ;o)
If I kept up with tv at all, which I don't any more, I'd watch it next week even if it wasn't Whedon, because the premise hits a lot of my kinks. But the show does strike me as a weird combo of--"we're trying to appeal to mass market besides the niche Whedon folks!" and "we think you'll stick with this because you're niche Whedon folks". I think the network wants both, which is dumb. If they get the latter they're sure to get *some* of the non-Whedon folks. Whedon built a base from somewhere; if the show is as good as his others it will always draw an audience.
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And- Michelle Trachtenberg was Dawn?! What's up with actresses who were in family movies being in "Buffy"? ANYWAY! Yeah, sorry, I told you this would be random. =P =)
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And, um, I may be free? Boy toys > you, and we usually hit it off Fridays, and I happen to like the sex quite a lot, so... OH AND IM MOVING! We can have MOVIE NIGHTS (and Fangirling About Secret Things nights!) and stuffs!
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Tell R to give me back my book; then we can all hang out, and squee! And there should be chocolate and alcohol.
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