lettered: (Default)
It's Lion Turtles all the way down ([personal profile] lettered) wrote2010-11-19 07:54 pm

Genderswap Pride and Prejudice

So, I really want to do a Pride and Prejudice fic wherein all the Bennet girls are boys, everyone else is the gender they are in the book, and both Mr. Darcy and Mr. Lizzy ([personal profile] my_daroga and I think Lawrence) are gay.



Mrs. Bennet would still be trying to marry off all her sons, except for Jane (John?). She doesn't care about John, because John will get Longbourne. Next!

She loathes the idea of Bingley taking Netherfield, and loathes the idea of Bingley's five thousand pounds, because a single man in possession of a large fortune must be in want of exactly what her sons are in want of, and they are not in possession of large fortunes.

Charlotte Lucas and Lizzy (Lawrence?) are still BFF. Charlotte knows he's queer as a . . . queer person, but wouldn't mind marrying him to be his beard. But neither of them have any money, so no go.

Besides, Lawrence doesn't want a beard. He isn't interested in marriage, because John knows all about him and wouldn't mind having him live at Longbourne, and Lawrence doesn't appreciate the idea of lying to everyone more than he already has to.

Lawrence still very much appreciates dancing with women, however, and is still annoyed by Mr. Darcy's comment at the Meryton Assembly. Perhaps Mr. Bingley was suggesting Darcy ask Charlotte Lucas to dance, and it is she who isn't handsome enough to tempt him; Lawrence can be upset on his friend's behalf. There might even be Mr. Darcy--who does not appreciate dancing with women--saying something like, "You know I prefer intelligent conversation." Which Bingley understands, because Bingley knows Darcy is gay.

And Bingley saying, "Excellent! Let's invite some of those fine chaps over for shooting! That one over there, for instance; he seems clever enough." That one over there, for instance, being Lawrence.

And Darcy tells Charles not to be ridiculous, for all these country folk are ignorant fellows who can only think about farming.

Then the insult is still directed Lawrence's way.

Then Mr. Bingley invites John for shooting. Possibly he invites Lawrence too, but Lawrence isn't keen on hanging out with Mr. Darcy and Mr. Hurst, though the Bingley fellow is a bit of alright. Either that, or Mr. Bingley invites John for shooting because Caroline prompts him to. Caroline, you see, has a thing for John. A very ungenderbent!P&P!Mr.Darcy thing for John, in that Caroline knows she could "do better"--Longbourne is not such a fine prospect ("and the mother!") and she still thinks she has a chance with Mr. Darcy--but Caroline totally has a crush anyway.

So, John and Bingley (Hurst and Darcy in tow) go shooting, and they delight each other endlessly.

Bingley: Such fine hunting you have in these parts!
John: I do enjoy a good hunt.
Darcy: . . . We haven't shot a one.
Bingley: But there are very friendly people here.
John: It is wonderful to meet new people.
Bingley: And look! Pine trees!
John: They smell most refreshing.
Bingley: You're right! The country air is so fresh!
John: Nothing like a bit of country air.
Bingley: And look! A farm over yonder!
John: It almost looks like a painting.
Bingley: Or a pastoral! How charming.
John: Poetry, I absolutely agree. Down to the ducks on the lake.
Bingley: Ducks! On a lake!
John: They are divinely quaint.
Bingley: What could be more agreeable?
Darcy: . . . the ducks are flying away.

Of course, they hunt quail or something, right? But I wanted to use that Agent Cooper line.

Bingley, by the way, is terrifically straight, as is John, and Darcy thinks it's a bloody shame because they are both beautiful and grinning at each other like madmen; they would go brilliantly together; straight men are all bloody annoying.

Then someone's gun wildly misfires, and John gets shot in the shoulder. Which just goes to show, one should never play with guns. (He gets better.)

So Lawrence comes to visit his brother, and is stuck there visiting with the Bingleys, Hursts, and Mr. Darcy. Mrs. Bennet is of course thrilled by this, as she has probably decided by now that Miss Bingley is a perfect match for Lawrence. Miss Bingley does attempt to flirt mercilessly with Lawrence by way of making Mr. Darcy jealous, but Lawrence is fairly adept at navigating her wiles, which Mr. Darcy admires, meanwhile discovering that Lawrence is not at all an ignorant fellow who can only think of farming.

Kitty (Christopher?) and Lydia (Billy?) are officers in the regiment at Meryton, so John and Lawrence meet Wickham while visiting their brothers.

Wickham and Darcy used to fuck when they were teenagers, and Wickham still pulled all the same stunts, including the one with Georgiana, which nearly made Darcy blow a gasket. But he knows Wickham did it to get at him and his money, not because Wickham had suddenly gone over heterosexual or bi; anyway, the point is, Wickham's as queer as they come too. So seeing Wickham with Lawrence still makes him go green all over.

But no one but John and Charlotte know Lawrence is gay, and no one but Darcy (. . . and a string of young men) know Wickham is, so when Wickham tells Lawrence his tragic past, he leaves out the part about fucking Darcy. Lawrence is still offended on Wickham's behalf, thinks Darcy's a tool, and totally has a crush on Wickham.

Wickham drops some hints and Lawrence begins to suspect he might swing his way. (He might also have a suspicion about the Darcy/Wickham, and thinks Darcy is the worst sort of man who will use another boy for his own pleasure and then hang him out to dry for it, because he can't even admit to himself what he is, like rich men with means sometimes do to boys beneath them.) But then there is still Miss King.

Mrs. Bennet call Miss King a lovely, freckled thing, and wants Mary (Martin?) to go for her, seeing as how Lawrence is already taken up by Miss Bingley. The thing is, Wickham goes for Miss King, too, and Lawrence is disappointed. But, just like girl!Lizzy, Lawrence is very practical and realizes not everyone has his family situation, with John to support him; some men still need a means of living; besides which some men still want to appear "normal".

Lawrence is totally alright with this. It's just not for him, or for the person he wishes he could find to spend his life with. He knows he's not being very realistic, for it would be hard for two men to work out being together without being married and without getting suspicion cast upon them, but he still wants to find someone who could give it a go with him, especially someone who is smart and awesome and wants to hunt together and fish together and go swimming together, and not just fuck all day long, which Lawrence has done before and it is very nice, but fishing!

So when Wickham fails to get Miss King, Lawrence still forgives him, but he's no longer really interested, though Wickham tries to pick up where they left off. Then the regiment is gone from Meryton, and the Bennets are gone from the regiment.

What I still haven't figured out yet is how to get Lawrence off to Rosings. I don't think Mr. Collins would visit if he hadn't planned on marrying one of the Bennets. BUT! If Mr. Collins didn't inherit Longbourne, he might not even be under the patronage of the noble Lady Catherine de Bourgh. He might have tried for something with more money in it. In fact, he might have been part of the regiment as well. Heaven save us.

If he is part of the regiment, he could still claim kinship with the Bennets. He might even have been clergyman at Hunsford, and decided to go in for something with more money? This seems not a safe venture, as Hunsford is quite a nice little living, but we really have no idea what Mr. Collins would do were he not to inherit Longbourne. Anyway, this way he could still embarrass everybody by approaching Mr. Darcy, and perhaps Lady Catherine has sent him to Longbourne to fetch her a new clergyman.

After all. Martin is taking orders, and needs a living. So perhaps Lawrence could go to Hunsford with Martin to get him settled in, and thus they meet up with Colonel Fitzwilliam and Mr. Darcy.

Of course Mr. Darcy still goes to Hunsford when Lawrence says he has a headache. There he tries to suss out whether Lawrence is interested. When at last Lawrence figures out what Darcy is doing, he tells him he's an asshole and to get the hell away from him, very much the same language as girl!Lizzy.

Darcy writes his letter. I want it to include Darcy convincing Caroline to forget John, but for Lawrence to be mad about that, John would have had to have had some interest in Caroline, and I can't see John caring for Caroline unless Caroline shapes up, beautiful!grounds!at!Pemberley style. So, hmm. Though I could see Lawrence being pissed about Darcy making John's decision for him out of hand, even if John didn't really give two figs for Caroline.

It's easy enough to still have Lawrence visit Pemberley.

I'm stuck on what Darcy helps him with in the end, though, to prove his ardor. Billy and Wickham could run off, but no one's going worry about two blokes gone out. My first thought was WICKHAM HAS A VENEREAL DISEASE, but that's not something Darcy could really help out with. Then [personal profile] my_daroga suggested Billy could pull a Wickham, i.e. run off with some helpless girl (Miss King?), but one thing I like about the Lydia/Wickham thing is Darcy is being nice, yes, but he also feels a personal responsibility about Wickham. Also, it's not going to reflect as badly on Lawrence if his brother is a cad as it does on women.

I thought maybe Wickham and Billy could be caught in flagrante delicto, and possibly be brought up on charges of sodomy. Darcy could bribe someone to get Billy released, but that has this icky flavor of covering up sodomy, while one thing I want to work with on Lawrence is that yeah, he has to cover up who he is, but he wants to be as honest about it as possible, especially with people he loves. But of course anti-sodomy laws are horrible, and the least horrible thing to do in a situation like that is do whatever you can about those laws not getting enforced. Maybe Darcy sullying his hands enough to get involved in a sodomy case, which might cause people to suspect he has a reason for defending sodomy, is enough for Lawrence to say, "here's someone who owns up to what he is," which is what Lawrence wants.

Then there's mad sex to be had an Georgiana has never seen her brother happier!

There's what is to be done about Charlotte--does she marry Bingley, or Martin? I think the idea of Bingley is interesting, and her showing more affection, even than she feels. She would resolve upon things, and not let servants cheat them, and they would never exceed their income!

And what is to be done about John--does he marry Caroline, or Georgiana?

Nor am I sure about the names. John and Martin are obvious, but Lawrence still doesn't seem quite right, and Billy and Christopher were rather arbitrary. Suggestions welcome! For a day way in the future when I will start to write this, and not finish, just like always.
pandarus: (Default)

[personal profile] pandarus 2010-11-20 07:58 am (UTC)(link)
Okay, colour me fascinated to see how this all pans out!

(...have you read DarkEmeralds' WIP 'Restraint', incidentally? Theoretically it's a J2 RPS story, but really to all intents and purposes, including names, it's original fic at this point, and it's GORGEOUS. Gay Regency romance.)
pandarus: (Default)

[personal profile] pandarus 2010-11-20 09:39 am (UTC)(link)
Excellent! Text is here, audiobook of first 3/4 is here.

[identity profile] deathmask-revel.livejournal.com 2010-11-20 05:22 pm (UTC)(link)
OMG it's even more confusing. XD

Hey--do we still get to see Mr. Darcy's face reflected in the carriage window at some point, only looking way more...gay?
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2010-11-21 03:05 am (UTC)(link)
HHAHAHAHA. Maybe we will see a dog!

I wouldn't think he would look any different . . .

[identity profile] deathmask-revel.livejournal.com 2010-11-21 03:57 am (UTC)(link)
He would have better hair. Or something. XD

Also D'awww. I miss Mister and Auryn.

[identity profile] essie007.livejournal.com 2010-11-20 05:22 pm (UTC)(link)
I really want to read this now. You have combined my two of my favorite things. Jane Austen and epic slash fanfiction. The only downside I see is that genderswap!P&P will no longer pass the Bechdel test, and we in fandom generally fail at writing stories that pass the Bechdel test. But I am always interested in changing a character's gender and seeing how the story would be different or how it would be the same but would be seen as different.

[identity profile] essie007.livejournal.com 2010-11-20 06:21 pm (UTC)(link)
It's a test for movies (and later TV and other works). In order the to pass the work must have

1. Two female characters
2. Who have a conversation with each other
3. About something other than a man

Sometimes it's added that the female characters must have names. A depressingly low number of movies pass it. But if you flip it for men nearly everything passes.

[identity profile] deathmask-revel.livejournal.com 2010-11-20 09:36 pm (UTC)(link)
Well. That's because women are boring. At least, that's what mass media has taught me.

I actually think he test should be expanded to include anyone not cisgendered or cissexual. Still, nothing would pass. But this story would!
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2010-11-21 03:30 am (UTC)(link)
I think it is a gross generalization to say that we in fandom generally fail at the Bechdel test.

I also think the Bechdel test is a great way to look at media and portrayal of women, but it's not really a good way to tell whether something is feminist, or has strong portrayals of women, or characterizes females in a realistic light or the light in which we'd like to see them. When something doesn't pass the Bechdel test; you've got to look at why; I feel that the test is a better measure of what's going on in media/society as a whole than used as any kind of measure against as single work.

That said, I initially did have a gut "no no no" reaction to the idea of reducing the female cast by five, partly because P&P is such a strong work in a feminist light. I do think it's interesting, though, how such a story would show that the issues of reputation and loss of freedoms for homosexuals is similar to the lack of independence for women Austen explores through Lizzy.

I think many m/m slash stories ask us to conveniently forget the female characters, or to see them as less important (not because the author necessarily thinks they're less important because they're not important to the story). I think a genderswap!P&P, one could not help but remember the girls; the juxtaposition of the source text against the fic would imo say something in itself. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2010-11-22 10:24 am (UTC)(link)
I hope my reply to you didn't come off harsh. I realized later that I have been frustrated with people using the Bechdel test as a value test, when I think it is something very important but also shouldn't be used that way at all. I'm sorry if I took any frustration out on you; I did not mean to.

Anyway, so JA + epic slash fanfic = Regency Era SPN RPS. Okay, so it's not Austen. But it's better than romance novels set in Regency, a lot better. I'm quite addicted to it. It has nothing to do with SPN (which I know nothing about) and as far as I know, very little to do with J2 either; it's original fic. It's dealing with the homophobia and stigma of the time rather well, in my uninformed opinion. I just love it, so far.

[identity profile] essie007.livejournal.com 2010-11-23 05:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh no, you did not offend me. I think you make very good points which I pretty much agree with entirely.

I don't think passing the Bechdel test is necessary for something to be a feminist work or even a good work in general. And I do think a lot of times women aren't in the story because that's not what the story's about.

But the thing is I like women. I like to read about women, and one of the main things I love so much about P&P (and much of Jane Austen in general) is that it's about women. It has female characters I can relate to and admire. It's about the relationships between women, between sister and sister, mother and daughter, female friend and female friend. I do enjoy my slash as much as the next girl, and I love the idea of genderswap as a means of examining societal views on gender and homophobia. My gut reaction though when you take all those female characters and make them male is "Ah! Too many dicks on the dance floor."

It's a feeling I sometimes get after having read a lot of slash fanfiction (which is why I brought up fandom in general) and it's the reason I had so much trouble getting through the LOtR books. I kept wondering "but where are all the girls?"

I think I would actually be much more interested in reading genderswap!P&P if you just genderswaped Lizzy. Of course that causes problems with the whole inheritance thing, but that might be interesting to read in any case. It's not so much that I don't want to read about men or the relationships between men. I do! I am very interested! I guess I just have a little trepidation with taking every female character and turning her into a man (and not doing the same for the men - thus eliminating girls). All that being said, I would still read genderswap!P&P even if there were no girls to be seen
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2010-11-24 01:24 am (UTC)(link)
Well, yes. The reason the Bechdel test is important is the simple fact that there are less women in stories than men, and for the women there are, the plots are male-centric.

I felt it was inaccurate to say fandom in general because femslash, gen, and het are large parts of fandom. There's plenty of het that doesn't pass the Bechdel test, but I believe the generalization we want to make is about male slash fandom in this instance.

Turning just Lizzy male almost bothers me more than turning all the Bennet progeny male, because of the way Jane's, Mary's, Kitty's, and Lydia's stories are all background. It seems to say the only important story is that of the son, and the others are unimportant by nature of being women's stories. If all the Bennets are men, then the other stories aren't as important merely because they are not Lizzy's story. And just Lizzy as a man still would not pass the Bechdel test in any case.

But that's just my feeling about it. I definitely agree with the too many dicks reaction, but leaving pussy in the story just for the sake of there being pussy seems to defeat the point.

[identity profile] stakebait.livejournal.com 2010-11-20 11:14 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm editing an anthology of queer Austen right now, if you want to write this up and submit it, that would be awesome!
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2010-11-21 03:04 am (UTC)(link)
I would love to! But it's probably going to be a while in coming. I'd love to see the anthology, though.

hello again!

[identity profile] ityellsback.livejournal.com 2010-11-22 08:10 am (UTC)(link)
hi! I wanted to say, do you mind me rooting through your journal to read all the fics? I'm sorry I'm a stalker, but you're so terribly interesting, and have such clever ideas!
/creep

anyway, I love Pride and Prejudice.
May I share my opinions on this?
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Re: hello again!

[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2010-11-22 10:12 am (UTC)(link)
Hahhaha that's not creepy. I do those things without asking people. Though I don't suppose that DOESN'T make me a creepy.

But no, I don't mind; in fact I welcome it. If anything strikes your fancy, feel free to comment or shake your head to yourself or tell your rl friends the scandalous things you read on someone's lj. Thanks for the sentiment ;o)

And I totally want to hear your thoughts. There needs to be more Austen fandom on journal sites, I say.

Re: hello again!

[identity profile] ityellsback.livejournal.com 2010-11-27 04:15 am (UTC)(link)
haha, thoughts, then!

Maybe Lizzy could be Ezra or Ezekiel or something with and "E"?

I don't know standard protocol for the time period would be, but why would John even still be at home? Maybe Mr. Collins is keeping it until John decides to move out?
And I feel like John HAS to marry Caroline for the sake of keeping the book as in tact as possible, but I would have to re-read to find a reason for them to be that into each other.

Perhaps Mr. Darcy should, in fact, insult boy!Lizzy's appearance? He can be all, "I don't want to dance, I want to talk to some hot dudes. And there aren't any here." and then complain that Bingley is talking to the only attractive guy, so Bingley suggests John's brother, and Darcy is all ppffff not hot enough.

Maybe Mrs. Bennet, while upset that this guy has bought Netherfield, is also super excited and thinks her boys can make some upper class friends and be all involved in high society! Cuz Mrs. Bennet being all MY GIRLS MUST MARRY all the time is hilarious.
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Re: hello again!

[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2010-11-27 04:34 am (UTC)(link)
I think John would be at home because he would inherit. There would be no reason for him to strike off on his own, because the money to do so would be tied up in his estate. I'm trying to think of first sons of the time period, but all of them are either rich or second sons. Hm.

I was thinking Ezra! But to me that name has a strong cultural connotation. Not necessarily a bad thing, but not really in tune with the flavor of the name "Elizabeth".

I don't think Mr. Darcy would talk about wanting to talk to hot dudes. Or even handsome men. There would be no reason for him to only want to talk to good-looking men. I mean, I think he could easily say that the men around him look uncouth, or uneducated, or even unfashionable. But explicitly saying he would like to talk to men who are well-looking would suggest something about Darcy that was not only taboo at the time, but illegal.

I did think Mrs. Bennet would be quite happy about her boys associating with Mr. Bingley when it happened! "And then they shall be thrown in the way of rich women!"

[identity profile] dreamwaffles.livejournal.com 2010-11-24 08:58 am (UTC)(link)
This would be amazing. I would read it so much.

I would also be more coherent but I am le tired.