lettered | The Fic That Ate My Brain.

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The Fic That Ate My Brain.

B. I use words to get the thoughts out of my head. They just keep coming and coming and don't make sense or feel real--sometimes I don't feel like a real person--until I write it down. So if I've got a story or idea, I need to write it just so it will go away. But that means if I write something down, it will go away, like Dumbledore's memories into a Pensieve. So in general I hate writing outlines/plans for stories/essays, for fear I'll waste the idea of what I want to write in the form of an outline instead of a story, and so never be able to write the story itself. How bout you? Like writing outlines? Thoughts, notes, ideas? Hate it? Why?

R. On another level, I sometimes feel like saying something will make something real, which will of course jinx it and make it unreal. For instance, I don't like to talk about it with my friends if I'm sort of seeing someone, trying to get a job, trying to publish a story. I always want to wait until I've already done it, or until after I've failed, and say, "look, see?" The thing is, it's not about needing to be successful; it's about hating the limbo, but being able to stand it better if I don't admit it's limbo and just wait for the outcome. The point? Is once again that I don't, or usually don't, talk about, or feel the need to talk about, things I'm writing. If I talk about it something unfinished it makes me a little crazy, because I don't know whether I'm going to finish or like the outcome. If I decide to abandon, or hate the outcome, I failed, but I don't mind talking about it then--it's the interim. This is why I have difficulty discussing and bouncing ideas around with friends/betas. I've rarely tried and when I do it makes me intensely uncomfortable. I know lots of people discuss fic they're writing with betas--why do you do it, how does it affect your process, do you ever feel you lose anything in doing it?

A. The point? The real point this time? I'm writing a fic which is EATING MY BRAIN and I want to talk about it because my BRAIN IS GONE. It's 150,000 words and it just keeps growing. I finally did write a bit of an outline for it, but parts that I think are going to be a measly 5,000 words jump to 30,000 words, and it keeps going ON AND ON. I feel like it's mauling me, seriously. (ETA: I feel the need to add I don't actually want to talk about it in an I'm having trouble with it kind of way, but in an I need to complain about it kind of way, which was really the point of this whole post. That is, IT ATE MY BRAIN AND NOW IT'S GONE. That was the point, really.)

I. And I just wrote slash. It was supposed to be a B/A fic! Okay, it still is, but one slash scene turned into 3, and 2 of them are pairings I never saw myself writing, and the other is turning into those 30,000 words. I don't understand. Stop it, fic, you're hurting me.

N. Now we cut the whining and get on to the important stuff. Which would be more entertaining: dubbing Spartacus so that it has dude after dude standing up and saying, "I'm Charlotte Lennox! No, I'm Charlottle Lennox!" or dubbing Spartacus so that it has dude after dude saying, "I'm MsScribe! And I'm Ms Scribe! In fact, we're all Ms Scribe!"? Who's with me on crossing out all the "Who is John Galt"s graffiteed everywhere and writing "Charlottle Lennox" instead? And lastly: tkp, I know who you are.

S. I saw that Keenau Sandra Bullock movie today. God, it was stupid. Someone explain to me why I thought it might be good?

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Oh that's too bad. I actually really liked both of those actors in Speed. Does that make me really shallow? Oh well.

Notice how I wrote that thing about not wanting to talk about fic I'm writing, then said I DID want to talk about this fic, and then didn't really say anything? I'm such a prima donna, probably wanted people to ask me about it.

It's a shipper fic with what I think is a silly premise. B/A really is central to it so I'm not sure it'd be your cup of tea anyway? But as I said above to Kita the ultimate idea of it is to drive Angel into darkness and then into complete insane psychoness. So of course Angel tells Buffy to fuck off, in much the way he did in S2 of AtS (this fic takes place early S1 of AtS), because he doesn't want her to get hurt. And then there's A/S, much in the vein of "Reprisal" because Angel's all, "what's the point anyway?" but it doesn't change his attitude or fix anything, which means a lot more A/S with Spike's feelings all hurt because he knows he's being used and Angel isn't really even thinking about him, so he's trying to hurt Angel back by digging into his Buffy sores and telling him this is all he is, which Angel is beginning to believe because he's gone all scary crazy, so it's like S6 of BtVS in that way except weirdly A/S instead of B/S, which is where I realized I could write a whole damn fic just for this part. Anyway, that's where I am right now. But then there's stuff with Riley and Giles too and Angel kinda scares me.

I am glad that you are excited that I am doing a longer fic. I, myself, am outraged. Heeeeeeeee.

The thing about a longer piece is I don't approach it like that. The words themselves aren't so very important. They can fade into the background, as can the style, so that the ideas and events can be absorbed into the readers' minds in the least distracting way possible.

This is such a good point, and one that I had to learn the really, really hard way, so I wish that we'd talked about two weeks ago. See? Talking is good! Let's talk more about our fics! But yes, I realized at some point, I think, unfortunately, *after* I had pulled out all of my eyebrows in frustration, that I couldn't make every sentence a MASTERPIECE, every turn of phrase a WORK OF GENIUS, or this was going to take forever. Sometimes, Character A says something, you add an adverb after the quote, Character B says something snarky in reply, you add an adjective after the quote, and then they're kissing. Wham, bam, thank you, ma'am.

fuels the desire to write.
This sounds like it would be the most important thing, for me.

Yeah, I mean, that's why we talk about our fics, to get the juices flowing in a direction that's not in circles inside our own heads.

I'm excited to hear you're doing a longer fic!

Er, heh. Don't get too excited. It is, believe it or not, a Xander/Connor pleasureslave fic. I know, I know. How I have 10,000 words to say on the subject is a mystery to me, too. I'm really having a lot of fun with it, though, and it *is* the longest thing that I've written/will write that's not AtS No Limits (that is to say, where the characters and plot points and developments are entirely of my own choosing), and I'm finding that I don't suck as much as I thought I did with dialogue, and realizing these things about yourself, breaking those barriers, it's why we write, yeah? That, and the feedback. :)

Me, obviously.

B. Yeah, I've had that exact experience, of writing a whole outline and then just losing the--the whatever it is, that makes me write.

R. I know what you mean about telling people you're writing, but I usually feel like if I tell the actual premise, it won't happen. But I do say, "I'm writing!" a lot, and it does, for some reason--perhaps to defend my honesty?--make me make sure I keep up writing.

I. Well, the fic is B/A, but a whole bunch of stuff happens with Angel where I guess he has to have sex with everyone in the universe? I don't know. I always knew there was going to be an element of A/S in it, but I thought it would just be this one scene, very short. But then the lead up to that turned out to be Angel/Doyle (look, I really don't know) and then there's Angel/Riley (which really has me WTFi'ing). And Angel/Giles but there's no sex so that probably doesn't even count. It's not very nice slash.

N. From what I can tell, it's not a kerfuffle.

S. I don't find him that pretty and yeah, I think he's a terrible actor. But he was very decent in this, which surprised and impressed me.

so I wish that we'd talked about two weeks ago.

I do too. I'm worried about your eyebrows.

Sometimes, Character A says something, you add an adverb after the quote, Character B says something snarky in reply, you add an adjective after the quote, and then they're kissing. Wham, bam, thank you, ma'am.

Exactly! *claps* I've read a publihed novel or two in which every word seems a stroke of brilliance, but most novels/novellas I really like, it's not a word or turn of phrase I remember. It's what happened and what characters said. And brilliance every word can be exhausting to a reader. They might be taking in their breath at every word--but then they haven't breathed for an hour and you've killed them.

I doubt anyone who reads this big long fic of mine will have a single moment where they think, "wow, nice turn of phrase" or "new and exciting metaphor!" Which isn't a good thing; there should be some finesse. But the hardest part of longer writing is integrating the "wham bam" aspect with fancier/impresive/poetic/whatever part; I sometimes find my style clashing. In a story like the one I'm writing, I don't even know where to begin sprucing it up a little, calling attention to the writing rather than the story once in a while--but in the end, I'm not sure I want to. The story holds up for me, it should for maybe two other people as well :o)

Er, heh. Don't get too excited. It is, believe it or not, a Xander/Connor pleasureslave fic. I know, I know. How I have 10,000 words to say on the subject is a mystery to me, too.

LOL! On the contrary, I'm even more excited! I've been reading lots of crack lately, and it makes me want to try my hand at it myself because some of the stuff out there could be really quality entertainment if the writing was decent and the characterization consistent. I've been having bunnies I despaired of losing all respect with everyone I admired on lj if I actually wrote them. Including slave fic. But when it gets down to it, any concept can be a work of genius in the hands of someone great. So anyway, I'd trust you to make something like that really really good, and, and Xander/Connor! Cool! I'm still excited!

No, but I liked them in Speed. Bullock was so ballsy and punchy and cute, and Reeves was so strong silent tough guy, but like with nuance. I wanted to see them together again, too! I just thought the writing for their characters was lackluster in Lake House. Could just be I'm harsh, though.

In a story like the one I'm writing, I don't even know where to begin sprucing it up a little, calling attention to the writing rather than the story once in a while--but in the end, I'm not sure I want to. The story holds up for me

It's hard to say without having seen the story, but there are certainly lots of fanfics out there that aren't stylistically writerly, but still strong pieces of writing. Back when

yahtzee63 used to write in the Buffyverse, I remember thinking how smart her writing was, with her layered, intricate plots and her clear, concise characterization. And she wasn't poetical in the least. I don't remember ever thinking, "wow, what a great turn of phrase," when reading her work, but I do remember thinking, "wow, that was an AMAZING story." So, I'm sure that your story will stand on it's own merits in that same way.

it makes me want to try my hand at it myself because some of the stuff out there could be really quality entertainment if the writing was decent and the characterization consistent

And I have had the opposite happen, where I read some crack pieces that were of such great quality and the writing was more than decent and the characterization was so fabulously consistent that I immediately wanted to see if I could do it, too. I actually wish that I didn't go into it with that attitude, because it's pleasureslave fic, after all, and it should be fun! and hot! and entertaining! I don't need to make this story a meaningful representation of everything I have ever thought about Connor.

I'm still excited!

Me, too, about your fic!

Heee! I feel like I should do an entry on it, to bring the heartening tale of Sean Connery (at least, in the dream) to a public that needs such warm stories of...something!

That is so cool, your Sean Connery birthday party!

Also, I may have linked you to this in the past (I know I linked Stoney) but so worth sharing it again!

Scotland More Relaxed When Sean Connery Is Away

Heee, whoops *mistakes accents*

He wash, but he wash alsho shad. :( I will post about it later, because it's funneh.

Before I started writing fanfic, I tried to plot what I wanted to write, and make up characters, and write outlines. And I simply couldn't do it. I'd sit and stare at a blank piece of paper and then go off and be depressed.

Plan B. I have a start point and an end point that I want to reach, and I like having a title that's appropriate enough to keep me on track, and that's it. I walk in my head from start point to end point, and I write down what I see and hear (oh yes, there are voices in my head).

I rarely forget scene ideas, which is why I don't do an outline most times. But that's because I don't quite get the idea and then NEED to write it down. I get the idea and think about it and think about it and write it and rewrite it in my head and then BAM! Need to write it or I'll go crazy!

Me too. I generally remember the main ideas that come to me, but advancing age means that I'm going to have to start writing down a key word or two, I think! But some scenes just write themselves in my head, word by word, with matching visuals, whether I'm at that point in the story or not. Sometimes it's in the car on the way home from the supermarket, and then the shopping has to sit unattended until I write down what I heard - if I don't do it right away, it's never as good.

I'm very happy to talk over what I did in a story after it's written, but I never talk about my stories while I'm writing them. I don't want anyone else's ideas, because then they wouldn't be mine. That's very important to me. If I don't know something factual, I might well ask around about that, but not the story ideas, or general direction. Besides, how could I, when I don't know where it's going? If I'm writing for something specific, and I have serious choices to make that fundamentally affect the story - Dark Star's Project Paranormal, for example - I might ask if there are any preferences, but that just means that I keep the alternative choice for another day.

And I am really looking forward to reading this gigantic story of yours... I think once it's done you might find you have a brain left - I'm sure the story will give it back. Hope so, anyway. Can't have tkp sans brain...

And I agree that not every word and sentence in a story should be so polished, so brilliant and so sparkling that the reader suffers from brilliance-fatigue after a page and a half. Even in this, contrast is needed. And I am more than happy to send the reader off to find a dictionary, but not for so many words that they don't understand any of the sentences... Particularly for plot-based story-telling, the simpler the wording in critical points of the action, the more the reader is sucked in. That's what I'm learning, anyway.

Sometimes I outline, sometimes I don't. Sometimes outlining makes me loose my oomph, and sometimes it doesn't. This used to scare me. But I know that even when I'm oomphless, I can sit down and put a gun to my own head and write it if I have to, so I tend to err on the side of outlining, especially for very long (over 20-30,000 words) pieces. My novel-length stuff tends to have umpty zilion subplots going at once, so if I don't outline, I'm doomed.

'I don't need to make this story a meaningful representation of everything I have ever thought about Connor.'
You do if your meaningful representation has anything to do with him taking all his clothes off. Ahem. I mean, go with where your art takes you.
You're going to post C/X slave fic, huh? HUH?

I'm v lazy with fanfic, and I never outline. Things kind of crop up on me, like there was a whole 'corpse in the shrubbery' moment in something recently - and who knows where that came from? It worked, I think, and it was absolutely last minute.
With proper stuff, though - I have to outline. We outline to death, and half the dialogue goes in there so really you're writing the actual thing, not just a plan.
This is no help at all, is it?

Yeah,

yahtzee63 is a great example! (Have you read her ALIAS fic? Lot of it is great, too.) I'm not sure my own is quite as good a plot as the kind of the Yahtzee did (way too much porn. Also, shippines.), but hey, I get a kick out of it.

I have to go to your crack dealer, it seems. Not much crack pops up on my flist. I started reading more of it when that Top 5 Recs comm geared up at the end of last year, and a lot of the recs seemed to be AUs, slave fic, etc...but I wasn't too enthralled with most of them. Heh. Enthralled.

Anyway, I have trouble approaching things with the, "this is just for fun" mentality. I always get worked up about it and want to make it meaningful, and often feel that the "meaningfulness" doesn't really jive with the premise. But sometimes that disconnect is what makes it interesting--like when you read a picture book and figure out the meaning of life, you know? Unexpected insight can sometimes make itself felt more.

I don't know if this fic is your cup of tea. I don't know if it's anyone's cuppa; I need to stop stressing, but I can't because my brain is gone.

It could also be that Keenau cannot act his way out of a paper bag.

Do you know I was going to post on this very topic today!!! More proof that we were separated at birth. Except your eyeball isn't flaking off, I hope.

I am off to dinner now, but I will be back with my fascinating thoughts later.

A bit of both, depending. Like say, if Connor is in the fic, and I'm unsure about characterization of something I have planned, I'd ask Fod, who is happy to smack me if I do him wrong.

If it's something I'm really excited about, I just wanna talk about it, I'll do that too.

Man, I love fic where Angel fucks everyone. My oldest BtVS-verse heroine was named Maayan. She's long since gone off to other fandoms, but her entire raison d'etre was: To write stories wherein Angel is slashed with every guy I can come up with, yet still make the fic B/A. She did it.

So can you. I can't wait to read this fic.

Baby, if it has Spike and Angel having sex, I will read it. *g*

The story sounds interesting. When I was writing my "Five Things" piece, I actually thought of having Angel fuck Spike instead of Darla at the end of "Reprise." But I couldn't work it in 100 words. No wonder you're taking 150,000. ;)

I'd be careful, though, not to make Spike into too much of a spurned lover. His feelings for Angel are nowhere near what they are for Buffy--at least not at this point in canon. If you need a second pair of eyes, I'll volunteer.

The A/S is a small part of the fic. Or okay, was going to be a very small part, but ended up looking like it's going to be longer. But it still is relatively small.

I could so see A/S is a "Reprise" (duh, not "Reprisal") type situation--I would've loved to have seen that from you! But yeah, I think it'd need more than 100 words to explain.

I'd be careful, though, not to make Spike into too much of a spurned lover.

Even if Spike's feelings weren't hurt, I think he'd delight in digging at Angel. Spike never really had any ammunition against Angelus before, the way I see it--the few things Angelus cared about, Angelus had. Angelus, on the other hand, could more easily make Spike feel a few inches shorter through Dru, through withholding his own approval, and probably various other things Spike was sentimental enough to care about.

But what I'm trying to write is Angel falling apart, and turning to Spike, basically handing Spike weapons to tear him apart further: stuff that's happening with Buffy and Angel's own belief that he can't rise above the monster in him. And Spike gleefully takes those weapons up: 1. because he's bored, 2. because he just found out about his chip and doesn't have any other way to destroy things, 3. because he always wanted to take things away from Angelus the way Angelus took from him, 4. because Angel's treating him a lot like Angelus would have and now's his chance, and 5. because at this point, Spike is a little shit that way. And I love that, because as evil as Spike is, he has the eyes and mind and heart to see more clearly than most exactly where Angel's hurts are, and how to pick at them. But yeah, that's what I'm going for.

Thanks for the offer. Did I mention this fic is long? I'd be embarrassed for you to have to read the whole thing. Seriously, parts are drenched in B/A schmoop. I'm getting Chrislee to take a look whenever I finish, which may be next year, who knows, but I'll send the A/S parts to you if we get bogged down. Thanks again.

Now that I think about it, it's possible that I don't talk about it because I don't want to get smacked. If I get smacked AFTER I write it, I'm okay, even pleased, because then I can just go fix it, and of course I want it to be good. But getting smacked while still caught up in the process would hurt my ickle feelings.

Man, I love fic where Angel fucks everyone.

Dude, well phrased. That's exactly what's happening. It's crazy.

To write stories wherein Angel is slashed with every guy I can come up with, yet still make the fic B/A.

Nice! I'd like to read some of that.

And thanks. It's nice to know people are interested.

I whole heartedly agree. With the part about the naked Connor.

But he's really good at, "Whoa."

It's because I am your alternate identity. I'm now convinced I'm actually you.

Well! I don't want help so much as just to know your opinion and how you handle it, so this works!

half the dialogue goes in there so really you're writing the actual thing, not just a plan.

That's the thing! Sometime when I outline parts of it get completely written, which mean the slightly less interesting parts I'm just catching with a few words or phrases, while lavishing loving detail on scenes/moments that most interest me. But once I get all the latter written out, who wants to write the filler? I feel done by then and don't want to do any more, and what I've got are several cool scenes that make no sense together.

What's also interesting to me is I don't really differentiate between fic, more serious writing, and even the writing for school (which is as close as I've gotten to professional writing, ha!) I've done. My process is pretty much the same for all three. Basically: wing it.

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The Fic That Ate My Brain.

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