lettered | Fandom list o' links #?

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Fandom list o' links #?

Did I get you to click the cut? Did I? Did I?

Is everybody and their mother rewatching BtVS from the beginning? Because about 4 different people have said they were, just recently. We should all do a MASSIVE REWATCH TOGETHER.

So, I was reading about

aea's freaky crush on the Rice Krispies guys, and it got me wondering, do you have any erstwhile freaky crushes from way back when? I'm not just talkin' Emilio Estevez (yes, I did, and yes, it's freaky. It was all about Mighty Ducks) I'm talkin' downright weird. Like how I was massively a Baloo/that-bear-woman shipper, from "Talespin," and how there was mental fanfic about that movie star cat lady getting between them. ~~Or like how I was in love with Goliath from Disney's Gargoyles.~~ Stricken because I am still in love with Goliath from Disney's Gargoyles. C'mon, fess up. Freaky crushes.

Reason #859 why I love fandom: because

rahirah's post about the size of Angel's schlong made

metafandom. Also, dude. Look at us, looking at our navels. We write navel!fic. We ship inny/outy, and write inny/outy porn, sometimes outy/outy porn and inny/inny porn, and sometimes navel fluff, which is nothing like navel lint, because that we pull out of ourselves with a kind of wonderous awe and say, "look! Look! Contrails of my navel!", and navel meta, and navel wars, and navel manips, and navel wank, which is like sticking your finger into your bellybutton and just digging a hole so deep we can see inside your insides and laugh and laugh at all the gooey stuff there, until we turn away in vomitting disgust, and the upchunk so hard we start laughing again, for lo, the same vile goo is in us as is in you! Oh, girls, except not you because you are a man but you're welcome too!, let us hold hands and bare our midriffs, except have nothing like that one creepy commercial 5 years ago where navels kept singing, "I'm Comin' Out," except we WILL be singing that, singing about our undying love for each other, and our midriffs, and our navels, and the size of Angel's schlong.

In other news, I love Buffy. Seriously, I adore that gal. She just--tingles me.

P.S., That AoQ guy I told you about just did a review for IWRY. And you know what, I've said over and over again that I'm just not the biggest fan of that ep, but I think I must be a liar, a total liar, never trust me again, because I'm thinking about it now, and how much I love me my B/A, and how I got to see them perfectly happy but Buffy never did, not really, and the AoQ LIKED it, which just I don't know, makes my navel feel really really full, almost throbbing, like I'm gonna cry, because everything (ok almost everything; he bashes Cordy too much. But the bit about SMG is sarcastic because he really likes her) he says is true, and he doesn't know that Doyle is going to die, and he doesn't know what a great show AtS is yet but he's going to, he's going to (/Yoda) and

l_aurens never will because she won't believe me about Connor, and--a-and he gave it an "Excellent," and what was I thinking, ever, it is excellent, because it's BUFFY AND ANGEL KISSING ON A TABLE, and then Doyle dies, and Buffy dies, and Buffy hates herself, and Angel has a son he loves but can't keep, JUST LIKE BUFFY, no Buffy doesn't have a son but you know what I mean, and even though Buffy gets to not be alone in the end it's still sad because she always will be alone, in a way, because that's who she is, and what about Angel in the end, what about Angel and Spike and Gunn and even Illyria, even Illyria damn her because I loved her, her and all of them.

Except Joyce.

/emo

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Okay, okay, you got me to click and now my navel feels all weird and tingly and it's all your fault ::stares hard at navel, navel remains stoicaly unresponsive:: I too love Buffy and Angel and the whole damn, glorious thing way more than is probably healthy, and you have reminded me again of just how much. IWRY was never one of my favourites either, except that I love it against my will, I love Buffy and Angel happy because I know it can't last, I love their struggle and their pain and longing, and trying to do what is right even though all they want is to be allowed to be happy, to live like people shomehow, even if it's just for a little while. And the end, the 'not enough time,' thing makes me cry every time I see it. Ouch.

I've been thinking about doing the big rewatch too, but it's always so much more fun when you get to do it with other people. Maybe we need the great LJ Buffyverse rewatch 2006?

You can't see it, by my navel is virtually hugging your navel.

I guess the thing about IWRY is I loved the shippiness, I just thought all the other elements, like the plot and some of the dialogue and stuff, was really sub-par. But, I don't know, last night I was thinking about it, and about how much I love B/A, and how much I love seeing them happy, and I realized that totally beat out over the lame monster and stupid Oracles and all the other stuff I didn't like. I mean, I still don't like those things, but in a weird battle between my id and sense my id just won.

Wouldn't it be awesome if we all started rewatching it together? I just think it would be, I don't know, so connective for fandom. But while we might be able to get a group of people it doesn't seem likely that masses of ljers will agree and decide to go at it together.

Joyce was a raging bitch. Down with Joyce!

And I feel you on the Buffy love. How did such a screwed up mom raise a daughter like that? I think it was Giles.

Word on Joyce. I guess because I have such great parents, she drives me nuts. Actually, what drives me nuts is I felt like the writers thought she was a decent parent, obviously they weren't trying to make her the best mom ever, but I don't think they were trying to make her the worst mom ever, either. But every moment when I felt like the writers were trying to make me say, hey, Joyce isn't that bad, or awww, Joyce, I just totally am not there. She fucked up way too much for me to forgive her, and 3/4 of the time when she is expressing affection for Buffy there are hidden barbs there. Just, ugh.

But I think Buffy was great even before Giles. But yeah, Giles was a wonderful parent figure for Buffy. He made mistakes, but I could forgive them. I wonder what she'd've been like without Giles? Probably a little more like Wishverse!Buffy.

<3

Here's some table sex.

I love IWRY. It's completely un-American not to love that ep! I just knew you wasn't one of them commies!

I love that icon.

Yeah, it was like a tide of shipper love totally burst the Berlin wall, behind which were stodgy voices saying, "lame plot, lame monsters, lame deus ex machina" ad naseum. Kinda like how Angel was all, "let's be mature" and then she touched him and he flew to her, a river flowing.

I also like "I Only Have Eyes For You" now. The Soviet Union is gone.

I love IOHEFY. Esp. when Boreanaz slips and says WOPS instead of wasps.

hahahaha! I guess it is okay since he is part Italian.

You know, IWRY isn't even in my top 5 episodes of BtVS/AtS, but I still really love it, despite the high melodrama and my better judgment. It's guilty pleasure goodness. The two are just absolute gold together, and seeing them happy for once was so great (chest-licking, what's not to love?) that it makes the ending all the more painful.

And seriously, that last scene? Possibly one of the best performances for both actors.

Am I the only one that actually grew to really love Joyce? Especially what they did with her character in S5, I thought she was the sweetest mom in the television world. At first, she's pretty dreadful, but it was realistic that she got better at the single mom thing as the years went on.

It's guilty pleasure goodness.

Exactly. And I always loved all the B/A parts, and always really enjoyed that aspect, A LOT, but I don't know, all the plot aspects and such annoyed me too much for me to really love it. Except now I've changed my mind, shown my true colors. It's funny because just the other day I was talking about how I don't change my mind very much. Possibly I AM fickle. Huh.

Am I the only one that actually grew to really love Joyce? Especially what they did with her character in S5, I thought she was the sweetest mom in the television world. At first, she's pretty dreadful, but it was realistic that she got better at the single mom thing as the years went on.

Lots of people love/like/sympathize with Joyce. But for me, she's the only character in Buffyverse I absolutely despise. Have you ever seen Gilmore Girls? I think Lorelai is a good example of a single, exceedingly flawed, really excellent tv mother. Of course I only saw the first three seasons so she might've went down hill after that.

You got me to click the cut, but if I were on the Lost island, I would totally not press the button. I'm a rebel like that. I just knew you'd have fun stuff to say.

I'm rewatching Btvs from the beginning too! Except I started awhile ago, and am now up to season 6. I love this show. So damn much.

My weird crush was a cartoon - um... that guy from Anastacia. Don't remember his name, but he was voiced by John Cusack. Who I have never had a crush on.

I started reading that AOQ guy's reviews too, but stopped when the end of the semester exploded, and completely forgot about it. I've got a ways to go before I'm allowed to read the IWRY one.

But yes, the ep rocks like a rocking thing as did the whole series, both of them, and Buffy and Angel and Spike and Gunn and Wes and Xander and all of them.

Even Joyce.

I wouldn't press the button either. I would want to see what happened if I didn't.

Oh, Dimitri? I totally understand having a crush on him. I liked that movie, but then grew to hate Meg Ryan so much that I could never watch it again. I had a crush on Shang, the dude from Mulan? Hotness. I wish they would make a live action movie of Mulan.

For me, reading AoQ reviews is like reading a really long epic SUPER angsty shippy romance fic. I want him to love the shows. I like it when people love different things, because then there's discussion and dissention and interesting view points, but for some gut-level reason, I get SERIOUS happy from people loving what I love. Plus, he's articulate and intelligent and insightful and funny, and I like it even better when people I admire a little like the things I like. So anyway, I read what he says and sometimes I violently disagree, and sometimes I only mildly agree, but ALL the time I'm glomming onto the positive things he says and thinking, we're going to make a fanboy of you yet. And his wife too; I want her to be a fangirl because she sounds cool just from what he says about her.

Oh, semester explosion. Ack! I just read how you took your last exam ever! Go you! Awesome! When do you walk?

Yeah! Except for the part about Joyce.

Dimitri! Yes, that's it. But now that I'm thinking about it, Shang may surpass him in freaky-crush-worthiness.

I was getting a little down with the negative things AOQ said, but the positive parts are fun and reinforcing. And I just love, love when he speculates about what could happen later. It makes me feel wise and all-knowing.

And yay no exams! I am sticking around here until graduation late May. Which is great, because I get to enjoy the area without having any real obligations. And it's springtime! I'm going to be outside all the time! Yay!

I need a Shang icon, one that mentions cross-dressing.

Yeah, I find myself all disappointed in him when he doesn't like an ep I like and obviously doesn't see the things I see. I hate how he can't appreciate Cordy, too. But yeah! I love reading knowing what happens. I wish I hadn't spoiled myself when I first watched the shows.

Oh, you have time to soak up all the collegey goodness. I remember I was a little sad to go, which was weird, because I really didn't like my last year, and the year before that I'd been abroad anyway. I hope you make the most of your time.

Buffy is my girl and I LOVES HER and I am TOTALLY contemplating a Buffy weekend despite my deep loyalty to the NFL and it's draft weekend. What's a girl to do. Go see my grandma, that's what.

And I love and still love to the point of scary, Raistlin from the Dragonlance Legends. To the point where I was like imagining him and me and how I would save him from himself and the dark side of the force and we would be together, forever, happily ever after. It's destined MAN! You can't have Goliath because Goliath is also my One True Love, forever and ever. But then there's also Vincent from Beauty and the Beast cause DAMN and then that started this whole THING for Ron Perlman.

I am keeping my navel carefully tucked away lest it should rage out of control and ruin my life.

Really.

Hee! Grandma! Go to her! Go!

I never finished a Dragonlance novel, but my BFF from middle school was IN LOVE with Raistlin. Didn't he have a twin? A good twin? I think I liked him better.

I really really really love Goliath. I'd take him for myself, but I'm a big Goliath/Elisa shipper. One day, I am going to do a fic. God, I loved that show.

AND OMG, YOU JUST READ MY SOUL, VINCENT IS SO MINE! Why are we in love with so many beasts? I am also going to do a Catherine/Vincent fic one day. I like how since that role Perlman's done so many vast-amounts-of-make-up roles, like Star Trek and Hellboy. Dude, I even kinda loved him in Hellboy because he totally reminded me of Vincent.

There's definitely such a thing as looking at your navel too much, falling in love with it, trying to have sex with it, and ending up dead eaten by rabid dogs. But! Fondling it now and then and making sure it's in good health is the best thing in the world.

Caramon was the good twin, but then he got married and was living happily ever after with this warrior girl, Tika. Raistlin SO obviously needed the love of a girl who understood him, accepted his tormented soul and would help him to find his goodness. *sigh* Oh, Raistlin.

Ron Perlman is the greatest thing since sliced bread and I, too, have a serious love affair with his character/make-up work. Hellboy is my sooper seekrit boyfriend being as how he's from hell and all and his girlfriend could set me on fire from thirty paces. Damn! But did you see The City of Lost Children? He spoke FRENCH! and One was so awesome. It was very kinda creepy with the whole pedophilia subtext, but I loved it!

I LOVE RON PERLMAN!

And if you EVER write Vincent/Catherine fic I would ~~stalk~~ heart you, like, FOREVER!

I was going to say nonsensically that I have a freaky crush on you, but part of that's not true and you get to decide which.

Lately I feel like doing a rewatch, except for the fact that I'm booked for my AtS rewatch still and then there's Farscape and the Roswell rewatch I'm doing with

kittyzams in a week because we are crazy and sappy and the WB's bitches. But my beloveds back home are all watching BtVS for the first time and I feel like I should *be* there, but I am not yet.

Blar.

You toss metaphor on its head and steal its innocence.

Buffy looks serious and awesome in this icon, so it totally doesn't match with this babble.

part of that's not true and you get to decide which.

Oooh, I like that. It's like a freebie.

we are crazy and sappy and the WB's bitches.

The phenomenon of the WB cracks me up. They have the stupidest shows. They also have the best shows, because they're willing to take the more far out stuff.

I feel like I should *be* there, but I am not yet.

I so much adore experiencing the things I love with loved ones who haven't experienced them yet.

You toss metaphor on its head and steal its innocence.

Huh. Who just gave metaphors innocence?

Buffy looks serious and awesome in this icon, so it totally doesn't match with this babble.

I love that icon too. But your babble is showcasing the lighter, poppier, humaner side of Buffy. Buffy, she is so multi-faceted.

I don't really have erstwhile freaky fandom crushes. It doesn't get much beyond, "yeah, I'd do her" so I'm more at The Todd level.

IWRY -- See, what I like about IWRY is the conversation Buffy has in the sewer about how she's trying to move on because she's well aware of the problems, but prefers him. And it's really more mature than people give her credit for. And it stands out more now because when was the last time anyone remembers her talking about her feelings and her wants so openly. Or, well, looking genuinely happy.

Except Joyce.

Heh. She gets points because she means well. She loses points for being really clueless. Like you've said to others, ME's portrayal is part of this. There's a certain feeling where IMHO we're supposed to think of her as a supermom - which I think is a product of killing her off in S5 and thinking that the more she's idealized as a mom-figure the more affecting her death is.

the conversation Buffy has in the sewer about how she's trying to move on because she's well aware of the problems, but prefers him. And it's really more mature than people give her credit for.

The conversation in the sewer is really good. I've always hated DB's delivery, though. I never believed him.

She gets points because she means well. She loses points for being really clueless. Like you've said to others, ME's portrayal is part of this.

It's not just because she's clueless, though. She really only seems to mean well when it's not about Joyce and Joyce's feelings and Joyce's life. For Joyce, Buffy always seems to come second. And yeah, they did build her up later to make her death more affecting, but I just accept that as a fatal flaw in lots and lots of story-telling. It's a bad technique, but I see it so often I'm kind of bleep it out. It annoyed me more in earlier seasons when I felt like they were trying to show her being a good mother, or cast her in a sympathetic light, and all it looked like to me was she was fucking up her kid.

I guess I never picked up on DB's acting in the scene.

It annoyed me more in earlier seasons when I felt like they were trying to show her being a good mother, or cast her in a sympathetic light, and all it looked like to me was she was fucking up her kid.

I tended not to notice her, in part, because Buffy was stepping past her. Joyce can be a real mixed bag. There are times when she's great - in the scenes with Snyder. But there are scenes where it's off. Where it does come across to me more about Joyce trying to be the role of parent rather than Joyce's genuine involvement with Buffy. I'd probably have to rewatch for that.

Joyce can be a real mixed bag. There are times when she's great - in the scenes with Snyder.

And sometimes with Spike.

Where it does come across to me more about Joyce trying to be the role of parent rather than Joyce's genuine involvement with Buffy.

Yeah, that's true. They do show Joyce trying, but she always comes off like a grumpy bachelor uncle who's suddenly having to take care of a kid.

wierd crushes? well, I will admit when I was in elementary school, I had a crush on Barnabas Collins from Dark Shadows. (are you shocked that Angel isn't the first vampire I fell in love with?) which is freaky because Jonathan Frid really isn't that good looking from my now grownup perspective.

navel love? I'm an innie and there's just nothing to get hold of to love *pouts*

Barnabas Collins from Dark Shadows. (are you shocked that Angel isn't the first vampire I fell in love with?)

Huh! I don't know anything about that show. I'm not shocked, though. Lots of people think vampires are sexy. What's funny is that one of the reasons I was SOOO against watching BtVS in the first place was I was convinced they were going to try to make me think that vampires are sexy, with that whole puppy dog 'I'm all tortured' act/Anne Rice routine. But it turned out vampires were bumpy monsters a lot like animals who were vicious and nasty and evil to the bone and beyond. And that there was only one with the puppy dog act. And that? That was good with me.

Oh, our navels should sing songs of loneliness and woe, drowning in our cups, missing better days, when we were pregnant by our stepbrothers who'd rather be with our best friends who've left us with no places to live. No food except this bottle of wild turkey which we drank all up.

(That was me being tanked and friendless for you).

Freaky childhood crush: Roddy McDowell in the "Planet of the Apes" series. Yeah, IN THE APE COSTUME. You gotta problem with that? ;-)

Ha! No. For some reason I had all these animal-people crushes. Goliath the Gargoyle and Vincent from the Beauty and the Beast show, which

seraphcelene reminded me of. The thing is--I still have those crushes.

No weird crushes for me, unless you want to count Danny Miler from junior high right through high school. I think I'm finally over him though.

People who don;t love Buffy are not part of my radar.

I haven't been reading the acq reviews for a while now partly because his view of the show doesn't have much in common with mine. The Wish is only rated Decent? Does not compute.

ACQ's review of IWRY includes the following comment: It could be called a true hero's sacrifice, or patronizing martyr-complex stuff.

He goes for true hero but imo, what most people fail to see (and this holds for all the characters), is it's both. People are contradictary.

I've read a lot of people who claim that thsi proves that Angel really doesn't love Buffy since given the chnace he goes back to backing a vampre but they must not have been watching the show I was watching. For the first, last and only time we see an Angel who's not only truly happy but an Angel who's unburderned by the past. The permenaent film that unspools behind his eyes reminding him of his crimes seems to have been switched off. So to say he gives it back because he'd rather be a vampore is insanity. And it obviously haunts him forever:

from NFA:
ANGEL: I don't remember what it was like... being human. It was too long ago.

HARMONY: (shrugs) Not so great. Zits. Dandruff. Mortality. Although I do remember... my heart. (smiles) And the way it would thump when I kissed a really hot boy for the first time.

It's obvious from the way Angel looks here, he remembers all tooo well.

So why does he turn back. IMO, it's partly because he doesn't think he deserves it, although I don't think that's the deciding factor. Also, he is not convinced (even now) that Buffy wouldn't be better off without him. And that's that martyr complex that I think he has. He belives that people are always better off without him in their lives.

There's also the hero side of the equation. The world does need him as a fighter.

But for my money, his real reason is he's lead to belive that if he stays human, Buffy will die sooner. He never thinks to ask whether that's a correct assumption (it obviously isn't) but that's what it stems from.

People who don;t love Buffy are not part of my radar.

Heh. Sometimes I want to kick her off my radar, but I can't because I love her too much.

I haven't been reading the acq reviews for a while now partly because his view of the show doesn't have much in common with mine. The Wish is only rated Decent? Does not compute.

Yeah! But a lot of his views of the show tend to be in common with mine, it's just the way we process them that's different. I think a lot of the things he points out as problems with certain eps are very true. I just think that the good stuff outweighs the not so good in most cases, and I also tend to take the not so good stuff with more humor and benefit of the doubt than he does.

ACQ's review of IWRY includes the following comment: It could be called a true hero's sacrifice, or patronizing martyr-complex stuff.

He goes for true hero but imo, what most people fail to see (and this holds for all the characters), is it's both. People are contradictary.

That was my favorite line in his review. And another example of how a lot of his thoughts are spot on, and I just come to different conclusions/opinions about stuff than he does, because I totally agree with you; Angel is both. That's a lot of what AtS is about, imo. And I don't actually think those two things are contradictory. I think that to really be a hero, a really big hero, you have to have a patronizing martyr-complex. You have to think it's me me me, it's only me who can do this, I should get to suffer this pain and I should get to die for everyone's sins because I'm so special, blah blah I'm Christ blah. Or else you're just gonna say, but yeah, shouldn't someone else be doing this? It's why he gives up Buffy and Connor, why he takes on the Senior partners. It's also why he fires everyone in S2 and kills Drogyn.

I've read a lot of people who claim that thsi proves that Angel really doesn't love Buffy since given the chnace he goes back to backing a vampre but they must not have been watching the show I was watching.

I'll say.

But for my money, his real reason is he's lead to belive that if he stays human, Buffy will die sooner. He never thinks to ask whether that's a correct assumption (it obviously isn't) but that's what it stems from.

I agree with all your reasons. I would also add--have I said this before?--he wouldn't give a fuck if the Oracles said, "you can't do anything to prevent her death; she'll die just as soon whether you're human or not". Angel and AtS and Joss Whedon are all about the effort. He needs to try, even if he can't make a difference at all. Which is why it must just utterly break him that he wasn't there to try to save her.

Yes, I agree that martyrs do have to feel like they're a special breed apart. Of course, in Angel's case, he's constantly being told this is the case, so I can't blame the guy. IMO, he's being used but doesn't see it.

Not only wuld I suspect he was devestated by his failure to save her but I have to wonder if he was angry at assuming his sacrifice would extend her life when it didn't. That's got to be so much worse.

Of course, in Angel's case, he's constantly being told this is the case, so I can't blame the guy.

Huh, I never thought about it that way before. He didn't start with the whole hero/martyr thing until Whistler told him he had a place in the universe. Cool.

I have to wonder if he was angry at assuming his sacrifice would extend her life when it didn't. That's got to be so much worse.

Oh yeah. But I just don't think knowing that would've changed his decision.

Maybe it wouldn't have changed his mind. But at least he would have known it was a long shot. This way he has to wonder if he was played for a fool.

(Plus knowing she was destined to die, I think he would have behaved differently. I suspect he would have been skulking around Sunnydale a lot.)

I think you're right. Hey, someone should try to write a fic in which instead of going to Pylea there's a big BTVS cross-over. Wasn't that the original plan? Anyway there should be a fic.

And how're you? Haven't seen you about. I reckon you're just busy but I wanted to ask if everything is okay just in case. And also say hi and let you know your lovely presence is missed!

Beyond busy. I have read anything on LJ since early Monday? Tuesday? I can't even remember. I saw your e-mail but I didn't even read your betas. I'm hoping to do your beta tomorrow.

I'm just so wiped out - running in place with no end in sight.

As always, please don't stress about the beta. I mean of course I'd like it, but not if it adds to your stress level.

I'm sorry things are so crazy! But I'm glad to hear you're not dead in a ditch. I hope things settle down for you soon. Love ya!

Confession: not only are my immediate family and in the midst of a Netflix-powered simultaneous rewatch of BtVS and AtS (we're almost precisely halfway through S4/S1), but... technically not a re. Definitely not a re for my parents, but mostly new for me, too (BtVS: largeish chunks of S1,2,3, about 2/3 of second half of S6 and S7, a couple eps of S4,5, AtS: couple eps of S1, about 2/3 of S2,3,5, one ep of S4, all pre-Netflix). I'm surprised I haven't hurt myself, leaping into fandom like that...

No shame in having a crush on Goliath. He's hot, as far as cartoon characters go (of course, I haven't watched the show since I was eight...). Um... you know what's weird? I don't really have any freaky crushes that I can rememb... Oh, wait. Good Lord, I forgot Rikki-Tikki. How could I forget Rikki-Tikki? I am shamed. Rikki-Tikki-Tavi, Rudyard Kipling's heroic mongoose, who I first knew through a cartoon adaptation (which is so close to the original story it doesn't qualify as a separate entity). As I was saying, my other weird crush is only strange because of when, not who. This crush was my first ever and still stands to this day. It predates my earliest memory by months. You ready for it? My parents watched Labyrinth with me when I was about the same age as Toby, the kidnapped baby from said movie, and I have been in love with David Bowie ever since (okay, it started as just a Jareth crush, but it expanded to a general Bowie obsession when I was six).

My navel is writing an essay on the separation of ethics and morality and it's effect on the understanding of "soul" in the Jossverse.

Ooh, poor Joyce. Why don't you like Joyce?

Now you have to tell me the story of how you got into fandom, because I am all curiousity. How have you not seen so much, and yet still rolick about with such abandon? Tell! Tell how the madness got hold. I love those stories.

While Goliath was hot, HE DIDN'T have any nipples. We need to face the fact the dude was a freak.

I do understand having a crush on Jareth, despite the unitards and sparklies. There was a point when I was reading Jareth/Sarah porn. However, I have to give it to you--your age when you fell in love was weird. I saw it when I was around 5 or 6, and I was FREAKED. It wasn't until my friend said she was in the fandom about 2 years ago that I got it again and realized he was kinda appealing in the Evil Guy way.

Oh cool! I always love contemplation of the Jossverse conception of soul. My navel wants to write a humor!fic on it one day. It's called Let's Get Metaphysical. Yeah I'm nuts.

One day, my navel will write an "I hate Joyce" rant, and explain just why I think she's a terrible mother, and awful character, and much much more! Stay tuned.

I can't actually remember when I got into Buffyverse fandom specifically, to my memory it just kind of happened. I'd already been fairly into Stargate: SG-1 fandom (not active, though: strictly as a lurker), as well as SGA and Firefly (not as much there; mostly because I think fic written in the first season or two isn't as good). So when I got into BtVS/AtS, I started looking for musicvids at basically the same time. I waited on fic for a little while, until I had a better grasp on the characters. As to how I navigate fandom without a map... It's like I've read the Cartoon Guide to Buffyverse (or Cliff Notes, choose your simile): I may not know exactly what happened, but I've figured out the major events, and I know the names and basic characteristics of the key guest players. I also know most of the central characters well enough that by knowing how they behaved at points A, C, F, and G, and what happened between those points, I can tell how they acted at points B, D and E (I'm starting on some bits in my Netflixing that were seriously assumption-only before, and I'm pleased to report that said assumptions are quite accurate so far). Also I'm quite vid-obsessed, and can generally place the clips in a vid to the ep they came from, so there's another puzzle piece fit in through body language and ultra-basic lip reading. What's really weird is when I know some tiny bit of trivia or detail from an episode I haven't seen, but a more well-watched fan can't remember even though it's from hi/her favorite ep. This has only happened a couple of times, but it has happened. ::boggles::

That went on a bit, didn't it?

Goliath wasn't a freak, he was just badly sculpted. These thing happen when someone is a piece of walking statuary (actually, I'd forgotten about the "no nipples" thing, but still. I felt the need to defend him).

To be honest, my Jareth obsession might not have transitioned into crush-type until I was a bit older, but I still stared googly-eyed at the screen (and continue to do so), so I figure it counts.
despite the unitards and sparklies
It's David Bowie. He has an unexplainable supernatural power to make himself look good in unitards and sparklies. Though at the time, I was way more interested in the magic tricks and tuning into an owl. I want to turn into an owl.

Yeah, I lurk around a lot of soul contemplations (including most of the ensuing comments), which is exactly why I never thought that I'd write one. Already been covered a thousand times, right? But then I realized that nobody seems to be aware that morality and ethics are not the same thing... And I'd better stop now, before I start rambling (or is it too late). I'll get the essay up soon.
"Let's Get Metaphysical" qualifies as something I'd read just because of the title. And it's okay to be nuts. So am I.

And please do write your rant about Joyce. I'd be really interested in reading more detailed reasons for dislike, especially as I'm rather fond of her. I can see where you might have problems with her parenting skills (certainly not Supermom, but she knows it and she tries) and as a character (she didn't have a real place on the show for a long time; the only reason she was created was that they couldn't write around Buffy's family the same way they did Willow and Xander's, then Joss decided he liked her), but my brain can't comprehend hatred of her as a person.

Heh. Well, what a strange and tangential intro to Buffyverse you've had! I was in the kind of limbo you describe for a few months, because I saw 6 eps but then didn't have access to the dvds. But I read a lot of fanfic, an appalling amount actually, even though I didn't know who a lot of the characters were. And from that I learned lots of things, most all of the big things. Then I finally began to get my hands on the dvds, and that was so much better. There were two really big things that happened that I didn't know about, one in Angel S4 and one in NFA. But other than that no big development really surprised me, which I think was a bit of a bummer actually.

Ha, well, you will always be able to better recall small details and specific lines than me. I always get so carried away by the story when I'm watching that things like the great lines don't stick out to me. Though I'm rewatching and during s2, I kinda took notes on small things I'd never noticed before.

Well, the show never quite got into how Gargoyles came to be, did it? It's unclear if they were creatures or statues first.

Who doesn't want to turn into an owl, that's the operative question.

But then I realized that nobody seems to be aware that morality and ethics are not the same thing...

It's so weird, I didn't know that until just about 6 months ago. I'm really appalled that I didn't know that.

My hatred of Joyce as a person springs from her bad mommy skills. The short version is I think she's selfish; she often considers herself before Buffy. That's one thing in a teenager like Cordelia, and completely another in a mother. But yeah, I'll do that rant one day, and explain myself more fully.

no big development really surprised me, which I think was a bit of a bummer actually.
I know what you mean. I consider myself quite fortunate to be more how- and why-focused than what-focused. Being spoiled for most major plot points has reduced the number of "Oh my God..." surprises (which are always fun), but not as much as you'd expect (part of this might just be good writing, where I get caught up in the episode and forget what's about to happen), because the things that surprise me, even spoiler-free, are the small (and not so small) character actions and reactions that happen around the big event. The best example is Doyle: it's common knowledge that he died in a heroic sacrifice to save a whole mess of victimized quasi-demons, but the real jaw-dropper, IMO, wasn't his death but the left hook he pasted Angel with immediately beforehand, which I hadn't heard about.

I always get so carried away by the story when I'm watching that things like the great lines don't stick out to me
This is basically a rephrasing of what I just said about spoilers, in that I'm more focused on the things that happen in and around the plot than on the plot itself. Unless it's a really suspenseful story ("Hush" for example), I don't tend to register the overarching coolness of the plot until the end credits roll. Also, I tend to watch most eps at least twice before sending them back. :)

Who doesn't want to turn into an owl, that's the operative question.
Point.

The short version is I think she's selfish; she often considers herself before Buffy
I love psychology. How two people can see the same event and perceive two very different things is something that fascinates me. I'll wait to elaborate until I have specific points to respond to, but I'm just not seeing the same things you're seeing. Well, we're seeing some of the same things, but somehow I doubt that your argument is based on Joyce Bogarting the Cheese Nips. :D

Hi! You don't know me, but I found my way here from one of your fics, and then read the others, and, well, I think you're kind of awesome, so, hi!

I had such a crush on Aladdin (the Disney version). Oh man.

It's been a while since I did the complete BtVS rewatch, but I did just finish rewatching Angel season 4. Somehow I'd only managed to watch it once, so clearly a rewatch was desperately in order. Yep, still as good as I remembered it. "I have 37 cats, and I've just changed all their names to Jasmine."

Yay! Kind of awesome! Thanks so much! And it's nice to meet you! Exclamation point! Welcome.

Why were those Disney guys so hot? I know lots of people had crushes on Eric, the Prince from Little Mermaid. I liked Shang myself, from Mulan. Aladdin was so cute and boyish. I can basically recite that movie.

I've actually only seen Buffy 4-7 and Angel 3-5 once, so I'm really looking forward to watching all of it. But I think I might be watching Angel S4 before I get there, and again when I do get there, because yeah! So good! All a blur! SOme of the funniest moments came out of the Jasmine arc (my personal favorite is Angel and Connor singing "Mandy". FUnny, yeah, and strangely poignant.)

won't believe me about Connor

Remember your thing about namechecking increasing comments? Well, damn.

You are the most adorable thing ever. I had a really weird weekend and to come back to your ranting feels like home. I give you permission to tie me up/down and fiddle with my navel and design a brain-washing plan of Connorfication of me, whenever you're in the neighborhood, because you're that good and I love your navel and my navel and they should get along.

ZOMG HAPPY BIRTHDAY! *dances around you. But not maniacally. No no, not me.*

Our navels *do* get along! In fact, you have one of the best navels, with some of the cutest lint.

If I ever got to visit you, I'd make you a Connor packet, with pie graphs, and visual aids. Really though, I just think you'd like him.

Well you'll have to devise a method of feeding me Connor-riffic eps without me getting annoyed at DB et al.

Hehe. Navels. I love bellybuttons. Because the waist is one of the nicest girl-parts.

I'd like to say that it was just ONE Rice Krispie guy. I'm not a freak, yo.

:P

Okay, I also dug the cartoon version of Robin Hood. Did I mention he was a fox? You know, big red tail and English accent?

Um, my mind's a blank after "Angel's schlong" entered the post.

Hee! Oops!

I liked the foxy Robin Hood too!

I love that icon.

That Robin Hood seems to have been very popular.

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