lettered: (Default)
It's Lion Turtles all the way down ([personal profile] lettered) wrote2007-07-22 10:32 pm

HP fic type thing, with spoilers

Apparently, I've committed fic? For Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows?

Everyone keeps saying how trite and sappy and lame the epilogue is. As I've mentioned, I find it CREEPY. Here is why.

Short, with focus on the epilogue. SPOILERS.


*

Ouroboros

You walk through King’s Cross to see Albus off to Hogwarts for the first time, and your head is crowded with paternal thoughts of loss. You can’t believe you’re here again, how it seems the time has flown. Then through a puff of steam you hazily see your son, and think how he could be you.

Then you wonder how long boys with the same unruly black hair, with the same pale faces, same glasses and same smiles, everything the same, have been boarding this train. Maybe your father looked like his own father, who looked like his own father, and back and back and back. The pattern is comfortably worn, and there is a sense of right to it.

History repeats. Time moves in circles. All is well.

Your own trips to King’s Cross were lonely, once Vernon sent you off and before you met up your friends. Your own son won’t be alone. He will have a red-haired mother and spectacled father; they will wave good bye, just as your mother and father would have done had they could.

There is a sense of right to this thought, too. History repeats, but never quite the same way. You are not your father. Nor is Albus you (as far as you can tell). There might be similarities, but you are your own people. You can make the future different; you can choose.

You are moving forward. The world is going on. All is well.

Everything fits. The shiny lines of Hogwarts track stretch straight out before you; the engine will chug into the future, into the unknown. And predictably, reliably, the engine will return. You remember another King’s Cross, imposed on this. The station had been clean then, so clear, lit with the white of steam, of certainty and uncertainty, of endless cycles of departures and return. In your mind, but real, Dumbledore had said. It makes a sort of sense. Everything fits.

Then all the pieces shift, following the incline of Draco Malfoy’s head.

Once that angle of acknowledgement had been far broader; it had encompassed so much more. He’d held out his hand to you on the train, out at ninety degrees. Across, even, drawing a straight line, as if you were equal. But you’d known him for what he was, even then. He was spoiled, self important, unkind. You had already decided. You had been told where all the bad ones came from.

(“I won’t! I won’t be in Slytherin!”)

History repeats. Time moves in circles.

Siblings argue on the platform. One red-haired, one blonde. The blonde secretly longs to be different, separated from all the normal people she knows, but she can’t. Her sister can, and that makes her a freak.

Another argument between two more siblings, one with black hair, one with red, is of course entirely different. The dark-haired one secretly longs to be not different, but the same. He longs to be the boy with the same unruly black hair, with the same pale face, same glasses and same smile, everything the same, boarding this train. And of course your son is only taunting his brother—saying that he won’t be like them; it is only jest.

(“I only said he might be. There’s nothing wrong with that. He might be in Slyth—”)

The red-haired sister, the freak, steps on board as so many have done before her. There’s a boy there with her, and he holds his heart out to her on the train, just as another boy has held out his hand. He extends it at a right angle, so that if she reached back, their heartstrings would measure level, as if they could ever be the same.

And look, everything fits: here with them is a boy with the same unruly black hair, the same pale face, the same glasses and same smile. This boy wouldn’t want to be any different than those other boys, with the same unruly black hair, the same pale faces, who’ve come before. If he was any different, he says, he’d leave—wouldn’t you? This boy, too, has already decided. He’s been told where all the bad ones come from.

(“So that’s little Scorpius. Make sure you beat him in every test, Rosie.”)

History repeats. Time moves in circles.

Yet another boy, but this one holds out nothing. Instead, he takes. They know that; they can see it; they find out. The professor had looked down into this boy's box of stolen property and seen it all, everything, except the heart thrust too far down to offer as you’ve seen others offer theirs. That was why the professor threatened this one; that was why this boy never even learned he might have instead been welcomed. That was why he never knew that to take someone’s hand, he would not have to lower his own. He never suspected that anyone could be his equal, or the same. He’s already decided, where all the bad ones come from: the Mudbloods and the scum.

(“Don’t get too friendly with him, though, Rosie. Granddad Weasley would never forgive you if you married a pureblood.”)

History repeats. Time . . .

Here’s another boy, and another blond. It’s not at a station but it’s at the start of summer, as certain and sure as the return of the Hogwarts train. This blond is merry, laughing, clever, powerful, and this time, the boy accepts the blond's hand. A friendship is struck.

Five years later our boy is prising a wand from those same fingers of that same blond. Fifty years after that, someone is taking that same wand from his own hand, and it’s another blond boy.

The wand that next came to you.

. . . moves in circles.

You could be him, you know, the man who wielded that wand for those fifty years. Your son could be him, too; he even shares the name. Your son also has a brother and a baby sister, not at Hogwarts yet. When you suddenly realize this, you don’t actually know what you’d do if three Muggles laid a hand on your daughter, did what they did to that other one so long ago. You do not know if you would go to Azkaban; you do not know what you daughter would do, either, if that happened. You don’t know whether she would lose control, kill your wife, whether either one of the brothers could kill the sister, or whether it would be—

—why, it could just as easily be that blond boy over there, arguing with your sons, all of them fighting and spitting and throwing curses about, until the sister gets caught somehow in the cross-fire. It could be that blond boy with his father, who looks exactly like him.

History . . .

You go in your different directions, but you always end up here, back at the station, the place of endless departure and return. Only in the places where the tracks cross, the lines meet, the threads tie, only here can you all exist for each other. Here in these intersecting moments, you make each other who you are; you make each other real.

Draco Malfoy only exists for you in a train station, autumn to autumn, Christmas to Christmas. Gindelwald only rises when Dumbledore shakes his hand; Tom Riddle only succeeds because there’s no one here to meet him; Severus Snape’s driving force in life was Lily Potter’s eyes, and Rosie will smugly outshine Scorpius just because her father told her to.

For a moment you see the future folding out before your eyes, as the past has just done, and you see the two are mirrors. They are the same. And even if the scar has not hurt you for nineteen years, fear, blatant and sudden, seizes you. It makes you crouch down, so that your son’s face is slightly above your own, so you can whisper away your fears like a dirty secret.

History repeats, but never quite the same way. Things can be different this time. Mistakes can be learned from: the bad ones never all come from the same place.

(“Albus Severus, you were named for two headmasters of Hogwarts. One of them was a Slytherin and he was probably the bravest man I ever knew.”)

You are moving forward. The world is going on.

Everything fits, shifting back, and Draco Malfoy disappears in puffs of steam. Your own trips to King’s Cross were lonely, but the present time is different. Your son will have his parents. . You remember another King’s Cross, imposed on this. The station had been empty then, of trains, of departure and return. There, stripped of everything, you learned you were love, you were life. It was real, in your mind. You must be right. Everything fits.

Tell your son he can make the future different. Tell him he can choose

(“The Sorting Hat will take your choice into consideration. It did for me.”)

You are not your father. Nor is Albus you.

Go on; tell him he can choose to be you.

Who wouldn’t be? Why should he? Your words were only whispers, and your name was just a name.

Your boy with the same unruly black hair will just want to be the same, same as the boys with pale faces, with glasses and with smiles. He’s already decided. If Severus was so brave, maybe they just Sort too young. He was obviously in the wrong place, because your son knows where all the bad ones come from.

He looks over to the blondes standing yards away in steam.

But you’re looking forward; you've already forgotten your momentary fear. Your scar has not hurt for nineteen years, and now it’s time to go. Albus and his brother board the train. Several minutes later the steam whistles, and the train chugs by. Several minutes more and it is all over; the train has sped and sped until at last it is a bullet, shooting straight into the future, into the unknown.

You are looking forward.

The world is going on.

All is well.

[identity profile] bella-donna428.livejournal.com 2007-07-23 10:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Pointed here from [livejournal.com profile] deathly_hallows. This was brilliant... gave me chills and really made me look at the epilogue differently, which is good. I mean, I understood JKR's point of the epilogue, but you've expressed it so eloquently, and put into words what I couldn't even put into coherent thought. I'm glad I read this! :D

Also, I like that you ended this "all is well"... nice touch ;)
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 05:59 am (UTC)(link)
I'm so glad this worked for you! I was surprised so many people seemed to hate the epilogue so much--I thought it was a nice, happy ending with all sorts of darker stuff just below the surface. Thank you for your comment!

[identity profile] halfslytherin.livejournal.com 2007-07-23 10:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I stumbled upon this link somewhere and - this is amazing. It made me look and wonder about the epilogue. It felt kind of weird to me as I was reading it, I was not sure if it was because I couldn't imagine them so many years later or because it just didn't feel right. The whole "I don't wanna be in Slytherin" thing also made me think "this sounds familiar". Now that I think of it again, the King's Cross chapter was also really creepy to me. It makes much more sense to me now and it feels more right now- I'm sure JKR didn't spent too much of her time in this epilogue if it wasn't so damn important.

Thank you. Adding this to memories!
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 06:01 am (UTC)(link)
I felt weird when I started reading the epilogue, too! Glad I wasn't the only one. I *loved* how the Harry-dead-but-alive-in-his-mind place took part at King's Cross. Train stations are so symbolic to me. There were so many little things that came together or got echoed in the epilogue, that it seemed an effective setting for that part too.

So glad this worked for you; thank you very much!

[identity profile] lalaith-niniel.livejournal.com 2007-07-23 11:12 pm (UTC)(link)
This is so intriguing. I love the way you've re-written the epilogue to make it fit in more with the tone of the book, incorporating what we learned.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 06:02 am (UTC)(link)
I love how the epilogue was quite a happy ending but had all this just below the surface. I'm glad this look at it worked for you; thanks so much!

Your icon makes me sad.

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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com - 2007-07-24 07:00 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] space-cadet.livejournal.com 2007-07-23 11:29 pm (UTC)(link)
That was amazing. I'm meming this, if you don't mind :)
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 06:02 am (UTC)(link)
Of course I don't mind; I'm honored that you liked it. Thanks!

[identity profile] moonyatnight.livejournal.com 2007-07-23 11:39 pm (UTC)(link)
That was absolutely amazing. Chilling and just... wow. Thank you.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 06:02 am (UTC)(link)
Thank you back; I'm glad you enjoyed.

[identity profile] evieeros.livejournal.com 2007-07-23 11:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Everyone has already said it...

I'm friending you, do you mind?

[identity profile] evieeros.livejournal.com 2007-07-23 11:42 pm (UTC)(link)
PS Also made it my very first memories entry.

(no subject)

[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com - 2007-07-24 06:04 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] bibliophile20.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 12:07 am (UTC)(link)
Very very nicely done! Wonderful introspection! *mems*
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 06:05 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks! I'm glad this worked for you!

[identity profile] gileonnen.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 12:13 am (UTC)(link)
A clever analysis of the happy ending, wrapped up in a well-written fic--as everyone else is saying, I'm not sure I'll ever think of the epilogue in quite the same way again. *shivers*
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 06:06 am (UTC)(link)
I'm glad if this can make you think about the epilogue in a different way. I like the ambiguity of it! Thanks a bunch for your comment.

[identity profile] anabellhenry.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 12:38 am (UTC)(link)
Beautifully sums it all up. Well done!

And, thanks.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 06:06 am (UTC)(link)
Thank you back; I'm so glad you enjoyed.

(Anonymous) 2007-07-24 12:43 am (UTC)(link)
Directed here by a comment on Buttfacemakani's page. I must say this makes a much better point than the real epilogue. I was so annoyed after having read it because all I could think was "Holy - Gryffindors are still a bunch of self-important prats. They're no better than the freaking Slytherins, who are supposedly the arrogant ones." Even with Harry's statement about Snape being "brave," I still got the impression that he felt the majority of the House were worthless. I really can't stand the fact that everyone tries to act like Slytherin's the designated House of evil. The other Houses have some jerks too. It seemed like JK intended for a lesson to have been learned but she kind of skimped on the details.

And wtf is up with those names? Albus Severus, another James, another Lily (not to mention Hugo and young Scorpius). Are these children not allowed any identity of their own? Jesus, imagine having to live the rest of their lives with the names and accomplishments of a bunch of dead people heaped on their shoulders.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 06:11 am (UTC)(link)
I'm glad you enjoyed this.

I felt like inter-House unity was going to be a big part of the ending, but really it wasn't. Snape was the only one in Slytherin who proved himself worthy (and maybe Slugghorn becuase he stayed to fight). The thing is, even if all the Slytherins left, even if they really are a bad lot of people, you STILL shouldn't think everyone in Slytherin is bad just because they're Slytherin. It shouldn't matter what House you're in; everyone should be given a chance to prove otherwise. Imagine deciding at age 11 that 25% of your children are worthless scum.

Hadn't thought about the names in quite that way; it's a good point.

(no subject)

[identity profile] ryla.livejournal.com - 2007-07-24 16:27 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] gryps-celsus.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 01:15 am (UTC)(link)
Ah, someone who can word it with much more grace than I. Thank you for this! I always thought it creepy to pair Harry with Ginny, even long before DH was a twinkle in our little fandom eyes, because of the striking similarities it bore to James and Lily - like he was looking for his mother. Which brings into play the whole Oedipus story with its questions of free will and destiny, which I think are highly applicable to Harry's universe, even if they are not really touched on in the books.

What I find interesting is that Harry really never seems to understand these things, even when he touches on them as in your piece. Even so many years later. It is his character, his being, to just pass over such things, to continue on with the circle - all is well.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 06:15 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed this!

I actually quite like Harry/Ginny, although I must say I found Ginny a disappointment in DH, which made me a little less keen. It's unclear--to me, at least--how Oedipal the relationship is, since we don't know that much about Lily. We know she had red hair, was a powerful witch, and was nice, which aren't three very defining qualities. Ginny has red hair and is described as powerful--I dunno know if she was as kind and forgiving as Lily, though. Seems like the gal can really dish it out when need be.

I think Harry does sometimes catch glimpses of these things, and then passes over them, as you say. It's more convenient that way and that's the way the world is already. I don't think it makes him a bad person; I think a lot of people are that way. And in some way Harry truly is a wonderful person. But I find Hermione more extraordinary; she never accepts the status quo; she's always pushing.

[identity profile] sari-malfoy.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 01:33 am (UTC)(link)
My worries exactly. Everything fits.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 06:16 am (UTC)(link)
Glad you saw the epilogue in the same way! Thanks for your comment.

[identity profile] bonisme.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 01:41 am (UTC)(link)
Oh. My. Gosh. I thought the epilogue was just rather silly, but this...just, wow. I hope that this was really what J.K. wanted implied, because, gah. It makes it so much better, and much more foreboding. I've always thought, you know, what happens after Voldemort? Someone else will come along wanting power, just like he did after Grindlewald, and this really cemented that thought. Kudos.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 06:17 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks. I'm so pleased if this can make you look at the epilogue in a slightly different way. I still can't figure out whether JKR makes these implications on purpose. For a while I thought she must--there were so many things that were direct parallels, glaringly obvious. But then she never acknowledges these things, so I just don't know!

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[identity profile] anidawehi.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 02:42 am (UTC)(link)
Fan. Frakkin. Tastic.

Shiver inducing and gorgeously written and the concept is a fascinating one. I hadn't really thought about it in that context but you're right, it was all one big circle, though I'm an optimist in that I think that the problems have started to be fixed...
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 06:19 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed this!

One of my favorite things about HP is the patterns from generation to generation. I actually think that some of the problems are on their way to being fixed, too. But old prejudices will take new forms, and there will always be Grindelwalds and Voldemorts. Progress is a slow thing; for every 10 steps forward it seems like there are nine back.

[identity profile] demeter918.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 03:13 am (UTC)(link)
Well done, very, very creepy, and I liked how there's the possibility that it could be different.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 06:20 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks! I, too, remain optimistic. To me the ending was not happy or sweet. There was foreboding there and things which made me uncomfortable--but there is *still* that hope that some progress has been made.

[identity profile] dianaprallon.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 03:16 am (UTC)(link)
That was great. Really. (But I still hate the epilogue, hahahaha)
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 06:21 am (UTC)(link)
Thank you! I liked the epilogue, but I understand why some people didn't.

(no subject)

[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com - 2007-07-24 06:56 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] i-autumnheart.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 03:19 am (UTC)(link)
Thankyou so much for the extra depth here - reflections like this are the best justification for fanfic that there could possibly be.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 06:22 am (UTC)(link)
That's one of the highest compliments my fics have received. Thank you so much!

Also, icon love.

[identity profile] kilted.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 03:57 am (UTC)(link)
That was completely amazing... oh wow. Very nicely done.

[livejournal.com profile] corellianjedi pointed me this way, and I'm VERY glad she did.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 06:22 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks! I, in turn, am VERY glad you liked it!

[identity profile] salifiable.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 04:09 am (UTC)(link)
Just jumping on the bandwagon to tell you that this is a gut-wrenching, thought-provoking response to JKR's abysmal epilogue. I have to disagree with some of the other comments in that I don't think that JKR meant her epilogue to be creepy and ambivalent in the kind of moral/political/social message she wants to send, but rather really did write it to be as sugary as it initially appears to be, which is not only scary but reflects a somewhat disturbing obliviousness to the implicit meaning of her own story; in epic fantasy, the struggle between good and evil should have concrete, irrevocable results-- it should mean something, the sacrifice should, in the end be worth the victory. Perhaps JKR does feel that for her individual characters that that might be true, but for such a large and wide-ranging battle to have no (apparent) wider social effect on the wizarding world except to make things comfortable again for those who were already comfortable (whatever slight discrimination the Weasleys might have endured as so-called 'blood traitors', they're still presented as the happiest and healthy family in the entire series, and certainly the Weasley's experiences would pale against the discrimination against werewolves, house-elves, giants, etc. that is never, ever addressed conclusively) is unsatisfying and disappointing. /rant

Right, sorry for rambling! But I think your fic does a fantastic job at pinpointing why DH left me so unsatisfied and uneasy, and I find it more insightful than anything JKR has written in her own canon.

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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 06:35 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks. I'm glad you liked this.

Interesting thought! I'm just not sure I agree. While writing this I was just struck over and over again by how many parallels there were to other, more sinister moments. Practically the only thing the epilogue reveals besides who married whom and what they're children are called is that 1) James is a jokester who likes to tease, not necessarily kindly, 2) Slytherin is still in disfavor, 3) no one should fraternize with Malfoys, 4) Oh sure there was one good Slytherin but since you don't want to be in Slytherin anyway choose not to be just like your dear old dad. I suppose you can read all the dialogue and things that get communicated in the epilogue as frothy and pointless, but once you go so far as to assume there IS a point, something slightly sinister takes shape around the edges of the sweet nice picture.

I'm also not sure I agree that in epic fantasy the results should be concrete and irrevocable. The reason I like fantasy is it's just another way to look at real life; as someone who is better at dealing in the theoretical than in reality, it's very helpful to me. So if fantasy says something that is true in real life, such as no victories are certain, wars are never won, and we must always be fighting to make the world what we want it to be--then I'm grateful for the insights.

I'm rambling too, sorry! I rather liked the epilogue, but I understand why you didn't like it. I'm quite chuffed that you liked my take on it, anyway!

[identity profile] indiegirl91.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 06:26 am (UTC)(link)
I feel stupid, but I don't understand. LOL. Summary, anyone? I've read your essay twice and I still don't get it. Help because I want to understand!
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 06:51 am (UTC)(link)
I wrote and posted this quite quickly, so it's probably not the most well written thing ever. I wish now I'd made it a little cleaner.

This is about how, even though the war against Voldie was won, things like prejudice still live on as they did in the past. I tried to show scenes from each relevant generation in HP: Harry and Draco on their first trip to Hogwarts, Lily, Snape, Sirius, and James on their first trip to Hogwarts, Tom Riddle's trip to Hogwarts and feelings about the place, Dumbledore's friendship with Grindelwald. I tried to show all the ways these generations repeat patterns of prejudice by people in each of them not understanding or respecting each other.

Harry seems to catch a glimpse of these horrible patterns, and tries to make clear to Albus that everyone in Slytherin wasn't bad by telling Albus about his namesake, Snape. But imo, Harry doesn't do a very good job of clearing Slytherin's name, and then he goes on to say that you can opt out of Slytherin if it's really that distasteful to you. Which is of course what Harry himself did--maybe if Harry had been in Slytherin he'd've seen much earlier that not all Slytherins were bad?

Harry thinks Voldemort is vanquished. And he is. But as long as we judge people on things like names and Houses, rather than who we are, prejudice will always snowball into other Grindelwald's and Voldemorts.

I'm sorry I failed to make this point clearer to you; I hope this explanation helps.

(no subject)

[identity profile] indiegirl91.livejournal.com - 2007-07-24 07:09 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] ks-claw.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 07:19 am (UTC)(link)
Oh man.. LOVED it!!
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-25 04:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks!

[identity profile] red-erythros.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 08:46 am (UTC)(link)
OMG. Now that's a better epilogue. Well done.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-25 04:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks, glad you enjoyed.
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[identity profile] ellie-i.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 09:36 am (UTC)(link)
The epilogue disappointed me from the very moment I read the dreaded words Nineteen Years Later - something no book should have. It's only in retrospect that I can see the pure creepiness of the thing, and this is one post-DH fic that helped to that.

(aka Fantastic!)
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-25 04:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you! I'm glad if I could make you look at the epilogue a little differently. I think there's a lot of depth there.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-25 04:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you!

[identity profile] monitorscreen.livejournal.com 2007-07-24 02:51 pm (UTC)(link)
Wow, this is mesmerising. Insightful, and somber. I like how you flash between past and present scenes, and the powerful effect of repeating the crucial lines. Creepy as intended, very nicely done :-)
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-07-25 04:28 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks! I'm glad the repeating lines worked for you--I wasn't sure whether it would feel repetitious or not.

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