lettered: (Default)
It's Lion Turtles all the way down ([personal profile] lettered) wrote2007-07-22 10:32 pm

HP fic type thing, with spoilers

Apparently, I've committed fic? For Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows?

Everyone keeps saying how trite and sappy and lame the epilogue is. As I've mentioned, I find it CREEPY. Here is why.

Short, with focus on the epilogue. SPOILERS.


*

Ouroboros

You walk through King’s Cross to see Albus off to Hogwarts for the first time, and your head is crowded with paternal thoughts of loss. You can’t believe you’re here again, how it seems the time has flown. Then through a puff of steam you hazily see your son, and think how he could be you.

Then you wonder how long boys with the same unruly black hair, with the same pale faces, same glasses and same smiles, everything the same, have been boarding this train. Maybe your father looked like his own father, who looked like his own father, and back and back and back. The pattern is comfortably worn, and there is a sense of right to it.

History repeats. Time moves in circles. All is well.

Your own trips to King’s Cross were lonely, once Vernon sent you off and before you met up your friends. Your own son won’t be alone. He will have a red-haired mother and spectacled father; they will wave good bye, just as your mother and father would have done had they could.

There is a sense of right to this thought, too. History repeats, but never quite the same way. You are not your father. Nor is Albus you (as far as you can tell). There might be similarities, but you are your own people. You can make the future different; you can choose.

You are moving forward. The world is going on. All is well.

Everything fits. The shiny lines of Hogwarts track stretch straight out before you; the engine will chug into the future, into the unknown. And predictably, reliably, the engine will return. You remember another King’s Cross, imposed on this. The station had been clean then, so clear, lit with the white of steam, of certainty and uncertainty, of endless cycles of departures and return. In your mind, but real, Dumbledore had said. It makes a sort of sense. Everything fits.

Then all the pieces shift, following the incline of Draco Malfoy’s head.

Once that angle of acknowledgement had been far broader; it had encompassed so much more. He’d held out his hand to you on the train, out at ninety degrees. Across, even, drawing a straight line, as if you were equal. But you’d known him for what he was, even then. He was spoiled, self important, unkind. You had already decided. You had been told where all the bad ones came from.

(“I won’t! I won’t be in Slytherin!”)

History repeats. Time moves in circles.

Siblings argue on the platform. One red-haired, one blonde. The blonde secretly longs to be different, separated from all the normal people she knows, but she can’t. Her sister can, and that makes her a freak.

Another argument between two more siblings, one with black hair, one with red, is of course entirely different. The dark-haired one secretly longs to be not different, but the same. He longs to be the boy with the same unruly black hair, with the same pale face, same glasses and same smile, everything the same, boarding this train. And of course your son is only taunting his brother—saying that he won’t be like them; it is only jest.

(“I only said he might be. There’s nothing wrong with that. He might be in Slyth—”)

The red-haired sister, the freak, steps on board as so many have done before her. There’s a boy there with her, and he holds his heart out to her on the train, just as another boy has held out his hand. He extends it at a right angle, so that if she reached back, their heartstrings would measure level, as if they could ever be the same.

And look, everything fits: here with them is a boy with the same unruly black hair, the same pale face, the same glasses and same smile. This boy wouldn’t want to be any different than those other boys, with the same unruly black hair, the same pale faces, who’ve come before. If he was any different, he says, he’d leave—wouldn’t you? This boy, too, has already decided. He’s been told where all the bad ones come from.

(“So that’s little Scorpius. Make sure you beat him in every test, Rosie.”)

History repeats. Time moves in circles.

Yet another boy, but this one holds out nothing. Instead, he takes. They know that; they can see it; they find out. The professor had looked down into this boy's box of stolen property and seen it all, everything, except the heart thrust too far down to offer as you’ve seen others offer theirs. That was why the professor threatened this one; that was why this boy never even learned he might have instead been welcomed. That was why he never knew that to take someone’s hand, he would not have to lower his own. He never suspected that anyone could be his equal, or the same. He’s already decided, where all the bad ones come from: the Mudbloods and the scum.

(“Don’t get too friendly with him, though, Rosie. Granddad Weasley would never forgive you if you married a pureblood.”)

History repeats. Time . . .

Here’s another boy, and another blond. It’s not at a station but it’s at the start of summer, as certain and sure as the return of the Hogwarts train. This blond is merry, laughing, clever, powerful, and this time, the boy accepts the blond's hand. A friendship is struck.

Five years later our boy is prising a wand from those same fingers of that same blond. Fifty years after that, someone is taking that same wand from his own hand, and it’s another blond boy.

The wand that next came to you.

. . . moves in circles.

You could be him, you know, the man who wielded that wand for those fifty years. Your son could be him, too; he even shares the name. Your son also has a brother and a baby sister, not at Hogwarts yet. When you suddenly realize this, you don’t actually know what you’d do if three Muggles laid a hand on your daughter, did what they did to that other one so long ago. You do not know if you would go to Azkaban; you do not know what you daughter would do, either, if that happened. You don’t know whether she would lose control, kill your wife, whether either one of the brothers could kill the sister, or whether it would be—

—why, it could just as easily be that blond boy over there, arguing with your sons, all of them fighting and spitting and throwing curses about, until the sister gets caught somehow in the cross-fire. It could be that blond boy with his father, who looks exactly like him.

History . . .

You go in your different directions, but you always end up here, back at the station, the place of endless departure and return. Only in the places where the tracks cross, the lines meet, the threads tie, only here can you all exist for each other. Here in these intersecting moments, you make each other who you are; you make each other real.

Draco Malfoy only exists for you in a train station, autumn to autumn, Christmas to Christmas. Gindelwald only rises when Dumbledore shakes his hand; Tom Riddle only succeeds because there’s no one here to meet him; Severus Snape’s driving force in life was Lily Potter’s eyes, and Rosie will smugly outshine Scorpius just because her father told her to.

For a moment you see the future folding out before your eyes, as the past has just done, and you see the two are mirrors. They are the same. And even if the scar has not hurt you for nineteen years, fear, blatant and sudden, seizes you. It makes you crouch down, so that your son’s face is slightly above your own, so you can whisper away your fears like a dirty secret.

History repeats, but never quite the same way. Things can be different this time. Mistakes can be learned from: the bad ones never all come from the same place.

(“Albus Severus, you were named for two headmasters of Hogwarts. One of them was a Slytherin and he was probably the bravest man I ever knew.”)

You are moving forward. The world is going on.

Everything fits, shifting back, and Draco Malfoy disappears in puffs of steam. Your own trips to King’s Cross were lonely, but the present time is different. Your son will have his parents. . You remember another King’s Cross, imposed on this. The station had been empty then, of trains, of departure and return. There, stripped of everything, you learned you were love, you were life. It was real, in your mind. You must be right. Everything fits.

Tell your son he can make the future different. Tell him he can choose

(“The Sorting Hat will take your choice into consideration. It did for me.”)

You are not your father. Nor is Albus you.

Go on; tell him he can choose to be you.

Who wouldn’t be? Why should he? Your words were only whispers, and your name was just a name.

Your boy with the same unruly black hair will just want to be the same, same as the boys with pale faces, with glasses and with smiles. He’s already decided. If Severus was so brave, maybe they just Sort too young. He was obviously in the wrong place, because your son knows where all the bad ones come from.

He looks over to the blondes standing yards away in steam.

But you’re looking forward; you've already forgotten your momentary fear. Your scar has not hurt for nineteen years, and now it’s time to go. Albus and his brother board the train. Several minutes later the steam whistles, and the train chugs by. Several minutes more and it is all over; the train has sped and sped until at last it is a bullet, shooting straight into the future, into the unknown.

You are looking forward.

The world is going on.

All is well.

[identity profile] horcri.livejournal.com 2007-08-04 05:05 pm (UTC)(link)
thank god someome wrote this.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-08-15 07:09 pm (UTC)(link)
thank god for your comment :o)

[identity profile] slave2haldir.livejournal.com 2007-08-06 03:59 am (UTC)(link)
OMGMARRYME.

Srsly though, this should've been the real epilogue. GUH.

So creepy. I love it.

[identity profile] solflora.livejournal.com 2007-08-06 07:30 am (UTC)(link)
Thank you so much for this!
The epilogue didn't make sense until I read this - it's kind of creepy but so much better explanining what happened at the end of the book. Apparently you understand the HP characteres better than their own creator.
I will never read this epilogue the same way as I did before...

[identity profile] silversyren.livejournal.com 2007-08-07 03:06 am (UTC)(link)
this is the ending I wanted for Harry Potter. something that left me with a sense of undefinable yearning, instead of a trite, happily ever after ending.

[identity profile] originalpuck.livejournal.com 2007-08-09 09:14 am (UTC)(link)
This was worlds away from, and better than, JKR's epilogue. My gut clenched, and I suppressed tears from the emotions this brought up. Absolutely fantastic!

[identity profile] rpduckie19.livejournal.com 2007-08-15 09:55 pm (UTC)(link)
brilliant.
only real word to describe this. :)
creepy and everything else implied in the word.

[identity profile] roga.livejournal.com 2007-08-16 11:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, this is why I found the epilogue creepy as well. Because Harry might have moved forward by admitting that a Slytherin was once brave, but in such a minuscule way that it barely makes a difference. The characters haven't really learned, and it's so, so obvious that history will repeat itself - just like Voldemort rose after Grindelwald, someone will rise after Voldemort, and there won't be much difference, especially if attitudes like Ron's continue to prevail. And it's not that the epilogue rules that out, but it does completely ignore it. Which I understand in a way, but this is what I needed to read. Thank you.

[identity profile] alena-hu.livejournal.com 2007-08-22 10:41 pm (UTC)(link)
This is utterly amazing. You've brought together so many strands, and shone a chilling light upon them. I was quite frustrated by the epilogue, but under your treatment, it really becomes not so much frustrating as heartbreaking. Also, I think this is the only fic I've ever seen where the second person feels completely fitting and necessary.

I have a question about one small thing, though, with the "Five years later our boy is prising a wand from those same fingers of that same blond." I took "our boy" to mean Dumbledore, and the blond to mean Grindelwald, but surely Grindelwald's defeat at Dumbledore's hands was many more than five years after their friendship? Or perhaps I'm not understanding it correctly at all?

I am also wondering: would it be all right with you if I translate this fic into Chinese (for posting at a couple of Chinese HP forums)?
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2007-09-11 02:16 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks so much! Again, I'd love for you to translate it and I'm sorry I didn't reply back sooner.

where the second person feels completely fitting and necessary.

I'm glad you feel that way. I dislike gratuitous second person, but in this I did feel it necessary.

surely Grindelwald's defeat at Dumbledore's hands was many more than five years after their friendship?

You interpreted the characters I was talking about correctly. I think you might be right about 5 years being too short a time. Canon says Dumbledore fought Grindelwald five years, and for some reason I thought they began fighting right after their friendship ended--and their friendship only lasted a summer. But it's more likely they did not have anything to do with each other for a long time before they began an all out war, because otherwise that would make Dumbledore much younger than canon suggests.

Thanks again.

[identity profile] hpwizzzard.livejournal.com 2007-08-26 04:45 pm (UTC)(link)
That was beautiful. And scary.

I'll never again say the epilogue was like a fanfic. I vote we officially replace it with THIS fanifc.

Wow.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2008-01-10 12:56 am (UTC)(link)
Sorry so late in getting back to you, but I really wanted to thank you--so, thanks!

Ouroboros

[identity profile] kyriacarlisle.livejournal.com 2007-08-27 03:53 am (UTC)(link)
I was directed to this ages and ages ago, by [livejournal.com profile] stultiloquentia (actually, she looked up from my computer and said something like, "if you weren't avoiding spoilers I'd make you read this right now - here, I'll bookmark"), and I can see why she was so fervent about it.

I agree with you that the epilogue is (besides trite and unnecessary and far too this-is-the-story-all-tied-up-with-strings) creepifying above all - I'm glad you've taken a crack at pointing that out.
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Re: Ouroboros

[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2008-01-10 12:58 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks!

This is random, but I'm friending you. I don't think our interests coincide that much, but every time I see you in Stulti's journal, I think: That is an interesting, articulate person I would like to know.

[identity profile] little-murmurs.livejournal.com 2007-09-04 04:28 pm (UTC)(link)
Here via [community profile] crack_van.

I really loved this.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2008-01-10 04:59 am (UTC)(link)
Sorry it took me so long to get to you, but thanks!

[identity profile] bluecrystalblue.livejournal.com 2007-09-05 02:21 am (UTC)(link)
Not every fanfic is poorly written, and you've just proven that point.

This, as somebody has said, really makes me see the epilogue in a whole different light. Now I'm not so confused as to why Harry named his children after the adults in his life. It's made me compare characters with the kids and made me like them even more than I did when I first read the epilogue.

I'm honestly wishing this was in the actual epilogue, it seems more thoughtfully written.

You have a real talent at writing. Keep it up. =)

[identity profile] roga.livejournal.com 2007-09-08 03:34 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, this is exactly what I thought when I read ithe epilogue, and you articulated it beautifully.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2008-02-14 04:16 am (UTC)(link)
Glad I wasn't the only one! Thanks so much, and sorry to get back to you so late!

[identity profile] acromantular.livejournal.com 2007-09-23 08:28 pm (UTC)(link)
Wow. *shivers*
That makes so much sense.

(Here via [livejournal.com profile] annafugazi's rec.)
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2008-02-14 04:16 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks! Sorry to get back to you so late :o)

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_generalsmuts/ 2007-10-09 04:53 pm (UTC)(link)
I love this.

One major thing I found creepy was Harry and Ginny. It was like Harry was trying to recreate his parents - because they both looked so much like the original pair etc. etc.

Naming all his children after dead people was bit much, too.

[identity profile] iesika.livejournal.com 2008-02-12 02:00 am (UTC)(link)
Oh god yes. You have hit the nail on the head.

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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com - 2008-02-14 04:15 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] fool-of-ships.livejournal.com 2007-10-20 07:48 pm (UTC)(link)
I remember having vague thoughts of this type while reading the epilogue, but my brain said "trying too hard" rather than "self-fulfilling prophecy." Too much fic of the former type, methinks. There's a fine line between tying everything up too beautifully in a cloying bow and creating a Möbius web around your package, and I greatly appreciate the way you've illuminated the difference. <3.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2008-01-10 04:59 am (UTC)(link)
There's a fine line between tying everything up too beautifully in a cloying bow and creating a Möbius web around your package

What an awesome way to put it! I like how the epilogue works both ways, though. Some people see a pretty package with rather too much ribbon, but I see this complex and hideous mess.

Sorry it took me so lony to thank you.

[identity profile] phoenixneal.livejournal.com 2007-10-20 09:04 pm (UTC)(link)
I liked the Epilogue the way it was, but I like this, too. Really brilliant - I admit it took me a moment to place some of the scenes at first, but the lack of names was a good choice, I think.

Thanks for the good read.:)
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2008-01-10 04:56 am (UTC)(link)
Sorry it took me so long to get to this, but I wanted to thank you, especially about the lack of names thing. I just reread it and had to think about a few of the scenes myself!--which worried me that it would be too confusing. But yeah, the point was these people are all the same people repeated.

Thanks again.

[identity profile] burn-to-emerge.livejournal.com 2008-01-03 12:03 am (UTC)(link)
This is amazing. It articulates my feelings about the epilogue (although for the less eloquent me, it was basically "creeeeepppyyy") and is so amazingly written. I literally have goosebumps.

And the sad thing is? All the next-generation kids are more fleshed out here than in the actual epilogue. The sadder thing? Harry is more in character here than in the actual epilogue. 0_o Great job. (Also, I adore the title.)
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2008-01-10 04:55 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks! I'm glad you liked the title--the fic doesn't explicitly mention Oroboros but I found it very fitting.

[identity profile] kestrelsparhawk.livejournal.com 2008-01-07 09:31 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm sooo grateful to HDhols for introducing me to writers I don't know! A friend told me about this, and it made my day. Yes, "creepy" is the word for the epilogue. For most of the story, I could ignore construction to get into the story -- but the epilogue compelled me to find excuses for JKR. Although I wrote a canon-compliant story, I doubt I'll write another with that epilogue, because I simply don't respect it.

Thank you for a great illustration of why fanfic often transcends the original.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2008-01-08 05:48 am (UTC)(link)
First, thanks so much for your comments.

Second, one day I'd just love to open up a discussion about what the hell JKR thought she was doing. The thing is, I *love* her epilogue, because all that I've written in this fic was inherently *there* in the epilogue itself. I wonder how many of the undercurrents she was hip to?

(no subject)

[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com - 2008-01-10 00:55 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] no-mad-skillz.livejournal.com 2008-01-10 04:48 am (UTC)(link)
Wow.

*scrolls back up to reread*

Yeah, still wow.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2008-01-10 04:54 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks very much!

[identity profile] animus-wyrmis.livejournal.com 2008-02-12 01:40 am (UTC)(link)
(Here via crack_broom.)

I really, really loved this. I always liked the epilogue--I thought it had some decent closure, and I liked that...that so much of the world hadn't changed, even though Voldemort had been defeated. And I love how you brought that out.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2008-02-14 04:14 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks! I liked the epilogue too; it was a mix of "okay, we're done, happy ending!" and our realer, more imperfect world.

The Skeeter in your icon is so cute! HEE.

[identity profile] iesika.livejournal.com 2008-02-12 01:58 am (UTC)(link)
This is crazy in all the right ways. Very haunting, and very well written.

I'd noticed some of the circles but not all the ones you've found. Very interesting piece. Well done.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2008-02-14 04:13 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks! The thing about the circles is not all of them are perfect repetitions of past events . . . I think that's what's so realistic about HP (whether JKR meant to make it like that or not...). History doesn't repeat exactly, so too often humanity forgets lessons it should've already learned . . .

(no subject)

[identity profile] iesika.livejournal.com - 2008-02-14 05:15 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] hogwartshoney.livejournal.com 2008-02-14 03:43 am (UTC)(link)
Shite. Followed a rec on [livejournal.com profile] crack_broom, and ... woah! I've only read DH once last July, and somehow I can't seem to convince myself that it's time to do so again. After this, however, I just might. It's thought-provoking and a little scary in the way time repeats and can repeat and very well may repeat all over again, and the similarities of the various generations, and how we affect the future generations based on our own experiences and prejudices of our lives.
Deep.
Enjoyed.
Thanks.
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[identity profile] tkp.livejournal.com 2008-02-14 04:11 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks!

Yeah, the way the end called up so many patterns, it made me want to read the whole series again!

[identity profile] berseker.livejournal.com 2008-02-15 11:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh. My. God.

This is wonderful. The pace, the repetition of key phrases, the descriptions- wow. I´m speechlees. I think I´ll just sit here and drool at you for a while.

[identity profile] pingrid.livejournal.com 2008-04-12 07:13 pm (UTC)(link)
I must admit that until I found this a few months back, I was squarely in the "trite drivel" camp with regards to the epilogue. You've single-handedly redeemed the ending of DH for me with this, thank you!

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